James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

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Zambo
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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

Post by Zambo »

Eaststand wrote:
Zambo wrote:
Eaststand wrote:In his eyes, you support a terrorist organisation.

Its funny, isnt it. Theres different viewpoints. One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.

Life isnt black and white. Ever.

He doesn't know me, and neither do you, so no one knows what I support, but why should he think I support a terrorist organisation for wearing a poppy? Do you think everyone who wears a poppy supports terrorists?. I've told you why I wear one, now you tell me why you think that means I support terrorists. McCLean openly does. He's a fucking hypocrite. Shows disprespect to the British flag, but is quite happy to live in this country earning huge wage. I don't support terrorists btw, what happened in the Bogside was a disgrace, and the fact that it was covered up for so long stank the country out. Why should that stop me wearing a poppy though?
Well, you called him a terrorist sympathiser, meaning you think the British army was correct, an organisation a lot of Irish think is a terrorist organisation.

You complain about goading, yet you regularly employ the tactic yourself. Where in any of my posts does it say or even suggest that I support any organisation, let alone a terrorist one. I've even condemnned the act that McClean is using for the reason not to wear a poppy

They're fucking heroes. They brought control back to the Irish and did what needed to be done.

Numerous premeditated acts of murder of civilians. If that's your idea of heroes I'll withraw from the debate, as there teally is no point continuing.
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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

Post by Basualdo »

I remember the 'heroes' throwing a petrol bomb through our living room window
.
I remember the 'heroes' shooting at an army patrol while my then 4 year old sister and her friends where playing in the street, using them for cover knowing the army wouldn't shoot back.

I remember the 'heroes' shooting our (Catholic) next door neighbour dead because he had the fucking audacity to fight against Hitler in the 'British' army.

I remember walking behind a friends sister's hearse after she was incinerated by one of the 'heroes' firebombs along with over a dozen others for the 'crime against 'Ireland' of attending a Dog Show function in a hotel.

I remember the frenzied weeping of another little boyhood friend and neighbour and his siblings outside their home because the 'heroes' had burst into the house while they were having their tea and shot his dad while he was in the bath after finishing work, mistakenly too, because the 'heroes' could not even find the right fucking address. But it was alright, they apologised for that one, Phew!

I think it best that I dont engage with 'Eaststand' for a while. I might not want to upset him and his 'heroes'.

I need to calm down,
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Eaststand
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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

Post by Eaststand »

I never said they were heroes.

I said most Irish people I've met, including my father though they were heroes. It is a very, VERY Irish Catholic community in Fulham and west Kensington , so I know it is biased, but that is exactly the point,they will point to the atrocities perpetrated by the British army and the loyalists.

And that's exactly the entire point. The same story can be told in totally different ways. And that's why it is neither right or wrong or to wear or not wear a poppy.

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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

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Basualdo wrote:I remember the 'heroes' throwing a petrol bomb through our living room window
.
I remember the 'heroes' shooting at an army patrol while my then 4 year old sister and her friends where playing in the street, using them for cover knowing the army wouldn't shoot back.

I remember the 'heroes' shooting our (Catholic) next door neighbour dead because he had the fucking audacity to fight against Hitler in the 'British' army.

I remember walking behind a friends sister's hearse after she was incinerated by one of the 'heroes' firebombs along with over a dozen others for the 'crime against 'Ireland' of attending a Dog Show function in a hotel.

I remember the frenzied weeping of another little boyhood friend and neighbour and his siblings outside their home because the 'heroes' had burst into the house while they were having their tea and shot his dad while he was in the bath after finishing work, mistakenly too, because the 'heroes' could not even find the right fucking address. But it was alright, they apologised for that one, Phew!

I think it best that I dont engage with 'Eaststand' for a while. I might not want to upset him and his 'heroes'.

I need to calm down,

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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

Post by Salem »

Basualdo wrote:I remember the 'heroes' throwing a petrol bomb through our living room window
.
I remember the 'heroes' shooting at an army patrol while my then 4 year old sister and her friends where playing in the street, using them for cover knowing the army wouldn't shoot back.

I remember the 'heroes' shooting our (Catholic) next door neighbour dead because he had the fucking audacity to fight against Hitler in the 'British' army.

I remember walking behind a friends sister's hearse after she was incinerated by one of the 'heroes' firebombs along with over a dozen others for the 'crime against 'Ireland' of attending a Dog Show function in a hotel.

I remember the frenzied weeping of another little boyhood friend and neighbour and his siblings outside their home because the 'heroes' had burst into the house while they were having their tea and shot his dad while he was in the bath after finishing work, mistakenly too, because the 'heroes' could not even find the right fucking address. But it was alright, they apologised for that one, Phew!

I think it best that I dont engage with 'Eaststand' for a while. I might not want to upset him and his 'heroes'.

I need to calm down,


Bas , that's a gut wrenching , poignant post .

I served in the RAF for 5 years in the 80's so you can all guess which side of the fence i sit on . That doesn't mean to say i don't respect anyone else's opinion on the matter and what started off as a somewhat throw away thread has turned into a political arguement on Irish history . You (Bas) seem to have taken the wind out of everyones sails when you've actually bought the real world back into it . What it was really like growing up in 'The Troubles' .

As for my two cents , i honestly can't understand how ANYONE can look up in awe to a terrorist organisation . Any terrorist organisation . Be it one responsible for the Manchester Arena , Enniskillen , Paris , Moscow theatre , Bali............any of them . I don't subscribe to the adage 'One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter' . Bollocks . Terrorists are fucking cowards . IMHO of course . I also understand that there have been times , not just in Irealnd , where Her Majesties armed forces haven't exactly covered themselves in glory . Zambo has already said Bloody Sunday was a disgrace and an abhorrent stain on Britain's military history . On the flip side , i remember sitting in the mess in the last few months of my service watching on live TV the virtual execution of two British squaddies at an IRA funeral . For a brief moment and much to my regret and embarrassment , i hated every single Irishman . All of them . The feeling passed as quickly as it came . After all , my maternal grandparents were Irish catholic as was my mother . She died just before i joined up but i remember the tears everytime there was an atrocity from either side . She hated the violence . To her , none of them were heroes .

As for James McClean , wear a poppy , don't wear a poppy . It's your prerogative . You're a two bit footballer who's done well with your limited ability . I guess you'll be remembered much more as the one who wouldn't bend regards the poppy than your footballing achievements . I wish you no ill .

And Nemanja Matic , i guess you were much more comfortable when your fellow Serbs were butchering Albanian Kosovans and Bosnian muslims than you were NATO (not just British) bombing your village . Wear a poppy , don't wear a poppy . It's your prerogative . See above .

Personally , i'll be wearing one . Each year there are more heartbreaking stories from WW1 coming to light . The misery , suffering and total and unnecessary waste of human life . On both sides . Some no older than 14 who went because they thought it was their duty . Makes you want to fucking weep . But keep your politics out of it please . The poppy shouldn't be political . To me , it represents every British serviceman who gave their all and were proud to do so . And that's why i'm wearing one .

This post is my opinion . I understand some if not most of you won't agree with it . I won't be adding to it . If i'm being honest , i'm still trying to digest Bas's contribution .
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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

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Salem wrote:I don't subscribe to the adage 'One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter' . Bollocks . Terrorists are fucking cowards

Spot on, Salem

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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

Post by Eaststand »

It's a good post, no doubt.

However the whole world worshipped Nelson Mandela, so it disproves the argument. He was a massive terrorist who murdered lots of children by blowing up schools, and yet he was the worlds freedom fighter and viewed almost as a living saint.

No one doubts his cause was just, but he was a terrorist. One man's terrorist absolutely is anothers freedom fighter Mandela proves that without a doubt.

How do you constitute a terrorist? What we are doing in the middle East is basically terrorising an area we can easily bully because they have resources. Is that not terrorism? Just because we say we are in the right doesn't make it so.

No one ever thinks they are the terrorist. Everyone has a cause. That is why the phrase rings so true, because it is true.
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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

Post by Reg »

People support a cause.

They don’t stop supporting it because of the tactics or the deaths of non-combatants.

This applies to every side in every conflict and war that I can think of, though I’m happy to be corrected.
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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

Post by Eaststand »

Reg wrote:People support a cause.

They don’t stop supporting it because of the tactics or the deaths of non-combatants.

This applies to every side in every conflict and war that I can think of, though I’m happy to be corrected.


exactly, my reg.

I personally, would never want to diminish the tragedies Basualdo, who I think of as an online friend, and who I have a great deal of respect for, has suffered, I havent been through anything like that, so my heart goes out to him for that, but, that is one side, the other side references similar things as their justification.

The point is, in this country, the press have told us the british army and the loyalists are the good side, however, you go to southern ireland, and the press will tell you the complete opposite. Martin Mcguinesses funeral was a HUGE event in dublin, it was barely reported in this country.

No one is saying any side is right, killing people to get your own way isnt correct, unless you are Nelson Mandela of course, then it makes you the pope.

The point I was making was its not black and white, one side isnt clearly the correct one, nearly 100% of the time.
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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

Post by finchman »

Stoke v West Brom on telly now.
Minutes silence,last post,players lined up respectfully in their poppy bearing shirts.
McClean conveniently named on the Stoke bench, yet no sign of the poppy dodging git during the ceremonies.
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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

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HeS NOt WeArINg a PoPPy
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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

Post by JimmyDee »

finchman wrote:Stoke v West Brom on telly now. Minutes silence, last post,players lined up respectfully in their poppy bearing shirts.
Is the one on Remembrance Sunday not good enough for them? Football, eh?
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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

Post by Zippy »

Basualdo wrote:I remember the 'heroes' throwing a petrol bomb through our living room window
.
I remember the 'heroes' shooting at an army patrol while my then 4 year old sister and her friends where playing in the street, using them for cover knowing the army wouldn't shoot back.

I remember the 'heroes' shooting our (Catholic) next door neighbour dead because he had the fucking audacity to fight against Hitler in the 'British' army.

I remember walking behind a friends sister's hearse after she was incinerated by one of the 'heroes' firebombs along with over a dozen others for the 'crime against 'Ireland' of attending a Dog Show function in a hotel.

I remember the frenzied weeping of another little boyhood friend and neighbour and his siblings outside their home because the 'heroes' had burst into the house while they were having their tea and shot his dad while he was in the bath after finishing work, mistakenly too, because the 'heroes' could not even find the right fucking address. But it was alright, they apologised for that one, Phew!

I think it best that I dont engage with 'Eaststand' for a while. I might not want to upset him and his 'heroes'.

I need to calm down,


Only just read this one year on. Very powerful stuff.

The romanticizing of groups like the IRA by people who weren't within 500 miles of the conflict is pretty sickening.
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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

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Re: James McClean (Poppy Dodger).

Post by Carlos J »

kevin04 wrote:

Jesus. Thankfully, the great @giantpoppywatch has been twatted in though yet to reply: https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch
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