Premier League Success Thread 2018/9

[Petingo]

Man City and their financial backers have ruined the premier league imho. They could dominate for decades with their financial power unless spending restrictions are brought in

The problem with “restrictions” is that the challengers will be affected as well.

United and Liverpool have each chucked hundreds of millions at it as well but cannot beat City.

I think this is all about Pep.

He spends the money and gets the results.

While he is there they will continue to dominate.

After that they will come back to the pack.

But in the meantime......I can’t see any of us landing a blow for that EPL title.

I mean, he got almost exactly the same points tally last season as this.....and will probably get more ir less the same next campaign.

This was a freak season fir Liverpool.....you couldn’t see them replicating it.

And no one else will either.

Already next season is a battle for second place.

United can't beat Cardiff City, never mind Manchester City.
Proves that money isn't the complete answer.

I don't really take much notice of the top six or so teams cause they play moneyball not football , but without detracting from Manchester City I can't help feeling very sorry for Liverpool ,who've achieved an incredible tally of points and worked so hard and consistently only to finish second.

Actually Brother Royals, those teams play the opposite of “moneyball”.

Moneyball was all about studying the stats and finding anomalies whereby a player with great stats in a particular position was way undervalued and flying beneath the radar so was promptly signed up on the cheap.

These soccer guys study the stats and then pay tens of millions for their players.

Or sometimes based solely on Youtube videos

Liverpool for example have broken the world record for a centre half and a goalkeeper in the last year and a half.

That is as far removed from moneyball as is possible.

[shabbado]

Man City and their financial backers have ruined the premier league imho. They could dominate for decades with their financial power unless spending restrictions are brought in

The problem with “restrictions” is that the challengers will be affected as well.

United and Liverpool have each chucked hundreds of millions at it as well but cannot beat City.

I think this is all about Pep.

He spends the money and gets the results.

While he is there they will continue to dominate.

After that they will come back to the pack.

But in the meantime......I can’t see any of us landing a blow for that EPL title.

I mean, he got almost exactly the same points tally last season as this.....and will probably get more ir less the same next campaign.

This was a freak season fir Liverpool.....you couldn’t see them replicating it.

And no one else will either.

Already next season is a battle for second place.

United can't beat Cardiff City, never mind Manchester City.
Proves that money isn't the complete answer.

I don't really take much notice of the top six or so teams cause they play moneyball not football , but without detracting from Manchester City I can't help feeling very sorry for Liverpool ,who've achieved an incredible tally of points and worked so hard and consistently only to finish second.

Actually Brother Royals, those teams play the opposite of “moneyball”.

Moneyball was all about studying the stats and finding anomalies whereby a player with great stats in a particular position was way undervalued and flying beneath the radar so was promptly signed up on the cheap.

These soccer guys study the stats and then pay tens of millions for their players.

Or sometimes based solely on Youtube videos

Liverpool for example have broken the world record for a centre half and a goalkeeper in the last year and a half.

That is as far removed from moneyball as is possible.

Correct. It comes from Baseball. A sport where just about every metric imaginable is monitored.

I don't think 'moneyball' translates to football in the same way. It's just a 'fashionable' term that the meejia and others have latched onto.

[Petingo]

[Steve Hunt]

Roll on August......it is gonna be our year

Bit confused here, Pet.

Are you referring to Everton's Autumn, Winter or Spring offensive?

They all seem to merge into one.

[Petingo]

Roll on August......it is gonna be our year

Bit confused here, Pet.

Are you referring to Everton's Autumn, Winter or Spring offensive?

They all seem to merge into one.

The Winter Offensive, Mr. Hunt.

But I am optimistic we will see an Autumn Offensive as well.....in which case City will need snookers come spring, if they are to make it three in a row innit

[subsub]

City will need snookers come spring, if they are to make it three in a row innit

*hands rest, spider and cue extension to Ol' Pet*

[Petingo]

City will need snookers come spring, if they are to make it three in a row innit

*hands rest, spider and cue extension to Ol' Pet*

[antdad]

Liverpool for example have broken the world record for a centre half and a goalkeeper in the last year and a half.

That is as far removed from moneyball as is possible.

Not entirely Pet, do you really think they (LFC) didn't apply the same type of metrics to van Dijk or Becker as they did to Salah or Shaquiri just because they ended up paying World record fees? There are also other forces at play, Roma needed to sell to avoid FFP sanctions not to mention the price usually trebles whenever a EPL club comes calling. Southampton also knew they could name their price after accusing LFC of tapping up and vD didn't appear to want to go anywhere else and besides both selling clubs new LFC had the money after Coutinho's sale.

[Petingo]

Liverpool for example have broken the world record for a centre half and a goalkeeper in the last year and a half.

That is as far removed from moneyball as is possible.

Not entirely Pet, do you really think they (LFC) didn't apply the same type of metrics to van Dijk or Becker as they did to Salah or Shaquiri just because they ended up paying World record fees? There are also other forces at play, Roma needed to sell to avoid FFP sanctions not to mention the price usually trebles whenever a EPL club comes calling. Southampton also knew they could name their price after accusing LFC of tapping up and vD didn't appear to want to go anywhere else and besides both selling clubs new LFC had the money after Coutinho's sale.

Not really the point I was making, ant.

I was explaining to Brother Royals that what happens re transfers in the EPL is the very opposite of “moneyball” as invented by Billy Beane at the Oakland baseball team.

[Steve Hunt]

Roll on August......it is gonna be our year

Bit confused here, Pet.

Are you referring to Everton's Autumn, Winter or Spring offensive?

They all seem to merge into one.

The Winter Offensive, Mr. Hunt.

But I am optimistic

I've got to give it to you, Pet, you sure are.

You and Mike Parry are two peas from the same pod

[antdad]

Liverpool for example have broken the world record for a centre half and a goalkeeper in the last year and a half.

That is as far removed from moneyball as is possible.

Not entirely Pet, do you really think they (LFC) didn't apply the same type of metrics to van Dijk or Becker as they did to Salah or Shaquiri just because they ended up paying World record fees? There are also other forces at play, Roma needed to sell to avoid FFP sanctions not to mention the price usually trebles whenever a EPL club comes calling. Southampton also knew they could name their price after accusing LFC of tapping up and vD didn't appear to want to go anywhere else and besides both selling clubs knew LFC had the money after Coutinho's sale.

Not really the point I was making, ant.

I was explaining to Brother Royals that what happens re transfers in the EPL is the very opposite of “moneyball” as invented by Billy Beane at the Oakland baseball team.

It maybe that some EPL clubs don't need to find hidden value but prefer to pay an inflated fee for just a good player instead of trawling through the stats but the point I was trying to make is the likes of LFC and many others still employ a form of sabremetrics (the root of moneyball) to ensure they get a better one. Take Salah for example...I remember hearing Klopp say in interview after his signing that he was very good in tight space or something along those lines. Seems obvious now and it may've been slightly lost in translation but that was something very specific you could only really establish through fairly comprehensive player analysis and not just by looking at his goals/assists column. That is the hidden value/characteristics or qualities they are seeking to identify irrespective of the fee and as for his value, you could say that has considerably increased especially after last season and that LFC actually underpaid.

[Petingo]

Roll on August......it is gonna be our year

Bit confused here, Pet.

Are you referring to Everton's Autumn, Winter or Spring offensive?

They all seem to merge into one.

The Winter Offensive, Mr. Hunt.

But I am optimistic

I've got to give it to you, Pet, you sure are.

You and Mike Parry are two peas from the same pod

I take that very kindly, Mr. H


A life without hope is a not worth living

[Royal24s]

Man City and their financial backers have ruined the premier league imho. They could dominate for decades with their financial power unless spending restrictions are brought in

The problem with “restrictions” is that the challengers will be affected as well.

United and Liverpool have each chucked hundreds of millions at it as well but cannot beat City.

I think this is all about Pep.

He spends the money and gets the results.

While he is there they will continue to dominate.

After that they will come back to the pack.

But in the meantime......I can’t see any of us landing a blow for that EPL title.

I mean, he got almost exactly the same points tally last season as this.....and will probably get more ir less the same next campaign.

This was a freak season fir Liverpool.....you couldn’t see them replicating it.

And no one else will either.

Already next season is a battle for second place.

United can't beat Cardiff City, never mind Manchester City.
Proves that money isn't the complete answer.

I don't really take much notice of the top six or so teams cause they play moneyball not football , but without detracting from Manchester City I can't help feeling very sorry for Liverpool ,who've achieved an incredible tally of points and worked so hard and consistently only to finish second.

Actually Brother Royals, those teams play the opposite of “moneyball”.

Moneyball was all about studying the stats and finding anomalies whereby a player with great stats in a particular position was way undervalued and flying beneath the radar so was promptly signed up on the cheap.

These soccer guys study the stats and then pay tens of millions for their players.

Or sometimes based solely on Youtube videos

Liverpool for example have broken the world record for a centre half and a goalkeeper in the last year and a half.

That is as far removed from moneyball as is possible.

Well then I've learned something. I use the term "moneyball" quite a lot on football forums and I honestly thought I'd invented it - obviously it already meant something so I stand corrected, but I've always used it to express the idea of teams just buying success rather than struggling through the barriers to success as proper sportsmen and teams have traditionally done.
To be honest, I'm not as impressed as I probably should be by the likes of Man City or Liverpool because really they just bought it. Previous teams from the same clubs which didn't get so far impressed me more to be honest.

It's a hard call because I wouldn't want to stop them using their rescources in the way they choose, but equally they've lost all connection to the people and communities they used to represent so, to me, it's just not the same thing.

It's not a wicked thing to buy a team of foreigners and send them out to nominally represent a place, but it's very different from the game we loved at one time.

It goes both ways too. People just choose a successful team anywhere they like and claim to support it, so you meet people with bugger all to do with Manchester who are apparently Man Utd fans ???

I used to go and watch Cardiff City when I was a kid and wherever I've been in the world that's still my team, even when I've lived and worked close to huge clubs. There used to be some special connection with "your team" , however well or badly they're doing at any one time but although that's not gone, it's reduced.
I honestly think that if Cardiff somehow started spending billions of pounds on people who had no loyalty to the club , and the ground started filling up with people who'd flown in from all over the fucking place with Cardiff scarves, ( I'll give the Irish Bluebirds a pass on that because it's handy for the ferry and they could just as easily go to a glamour club), well then I don't think I could watch them anymore.

[Carlos J]

'Moneyball' was a book about baseball, Royals:



And didn't Mr Tam come in and change the Bluebirds to red until he was more wise and fans not happy?

[Royal24s]

Yeah exactly. He insisted on this f,,,king red shirts and sacking Malky McKay for the Norwegian idiot now destroying Man Utd , and despite getting into the premiership the fans walked away as he bought useless foreign players for millions.
In fairness he's wised up now in many ways.
Sir Neil Warnock has rebuilt the spirit of the club , as seen when he was given a standing ovation by the fans on the day they got relegated !
Interesting to note by the way that the team which beat Manchester United 2-0 at old Trafford on the last day of the season were all playing in the championship the previous season, and with any luck none of them will be going anywhere despite Chelsea and West Ham waving their chequebooks ---- Point being that what we've achieved , ( and I say we deliberately), has been through blood sweat and tears and on a very small budget compared to most teams and the public remain a huge part of that.
It's that determination which I hope will see us carry the Chamionship away next year because we're still improving and no ones walked away - maybe you recall its what I wanted to see Middlesborough do cause it's a similar club in many ways.

I can understand why people might laugh at this, but to my mind they've done better than Man City because no one bought it for them and so everyone's included.

As everyone knows , we were only relegated by bent refereeing decisions , and I mention this because when Sir Neil Warnock was fined £20,000 for telling them that, the fans did crowd funding and had coin buckets at home matches to pay it. He didn't get sacked because we were temporarily sent back to the championship as most clubs today would have done.

Hey, my whole little fit of passion and defiance there is what you'd get from any Cardiff supporter. That's what I'm saying really , that it's very different from a top six club with bought players, bought supporters from everywhere and where they sack the manager and walk out of the ground if they lose two games.