Zambo, you are the ref.

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Zambo
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Re: Zambo, you are the ref.

Post by Zambo »

Shedboy wrote:Indeed, my friend; perhaps I worded that badly.

He was in an offside position when the ball was played, and if he hadn't moved to collect the ball then he wouldn't have been flagged.
However, he ran back in to our half to get the ball, was then deemed active thus given the opposition an indirect free kick for offside in our half.

No probs, yeah that was definitely a rare occurrence as you say. Seeking to gain an advantage from an initial offside position and all that. :D
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Shedboy
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Re: Zambo, you are the ref.

Post by Shedboy »

Thank fuck he wasn't deemed active in our penalty area. :lol:

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Hillman avenger
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Question for referees on here

Post by Hillman avenger »

Yesterday Liverpool goalkeeper Alisson got a red card for handling outside the area.
OK.
So the sub keeper came on and he and the players were slow in sorting the wall.

Atkinson signalled the free kick could be taken, and they were caught out as Dunk rolled it into the net.

However if you look at the rules, the free kick in that situation is INDIRECT. As far as I saw no-one else touched the ball after Dunk hit it.
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Zambo
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Re: Question for referees on here

Post by Zambo »

Handling the ball is punishable by a direct free kick.

Haven't seen the incident but assume that the keeper denied an opponent a clear goal scoring opportunity. Handball by the keeper outside the area is not an automatic send off offence
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Reg
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Re: Question for referees on here

Post by Reg »

Hillman avenger wrote:Yesterday Liverpool goalkeeper Alisson got a red card for handling outside the area.
OK.
So the sub keeper came on and he and the players were slow in sorting the wall.

Atkinson signalled the free kick could be taken, and they were caught out as Dunk rolled it into the net.

However if you look at the rules, the free kick in that situation is INDIRECT. As far as I saw no-one else touched the ball after Dunk hit it.


Handball has always been a direct free kick, as far as I’m aware.

Maybe you are thinking of goalkeepers handling (in the penalty area) a back-pass from a team-mate, which results in an indirect free kick.
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Hillman avenger
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Re: Question for referees on here

Post by Hillman avenger »

From the FA website

he law for red cards, according to the FA website, is as follows:

Sending-Off Offences
A player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following offences:

S1 is guilty of serious foul play
S2 is guilty of violent conduct
S3 spits at an opponent or any other person
S4 denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
S5 denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick
S6 uses offensive, insulting or abusive language
S7 receives a second blue/yellow card in the same match
If play is stopped for a player to be sent from the playing area without having committed any additional infringement of the Laws, the game is restarted by an indirect free kick, awarded to the opposing team, to be taken at the place where the infringement occurred. However, if the offence is committed in the penalty area, the indirect free kick is taken from the penalty area line at the place nearest to where the infringement occurred.

In addition, when Dunk took the kick, Brighton players were in front of the Liverpool wall, As far as I know, that should not be allowed either
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Reg
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Re: Question for referees on here

Post by Reg »

Hillman avenger wrote:From the FA website

he law for red cards, according to the FA website, is as follows:

Sending-Off Offences
A player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following offences:

S1 is guilty of serious foul play
S2 is guilty of violent conduct
S3 spits at an opponent or any other person
S4 denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
S5 denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick
S6 uses offensive, insulting or abusive language
S7 receives a second blue/yellow card in the same match
If play is stopped for a player to be sent from the playing area without having committed any additional infringement of the Laws, the game is restarted by an indirect free kick, awarded to the opposing team, to be taken at the place where the infringement occurred. However, if the offence is committed in the penalty area, the indirect free kick is taken from the penalty area line at the place nearest to where the infringement occurred.

In addition, when Dunk took the kick, Brighton players were in front of the Liverpool wall, As far as I know, that should not be allowed either


That paragraph beginning “If play is stopped...” is rather ambiguously worded.

It must surely be separate from the examples above, because S5 mentions penalties, which are direct free kicks.

So presumably the paragraph refers to other offences not mentioned in the examples.

Otherwise it would be ridiculous, because it would mean that when a player is red-carded it is almost impossible to get a direct free kick.
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Zambo
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Re: Question for referees on here

Post by Zambo »

What are you deducing from all that stuff you've copied?

Hand ball is a penal offence if considered deliberate by the ref and a direct free kick is awarded to the opposition. Players from the same side as the free kick taker do not have to be 10 yards from the ball as the opposition do.

What are your actual questions based on that. You should note that play was stopped because handball occurred, the red card came next.
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Re: Question for referees on here

Post by Reg »

Hillman avenger wrote:
In addition, when Dunk took the kick, Brighton players were in front of the Liverpool wall, As far as I know, that should not be allowed either


Forgot to say - attackers can stand in front of the wall (I think they have to be a minimum of one metre away) but they can’t stand IN the wall.
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Re: Question for referees on here

Post by kancutlawns »

Looked like a shambolic organisation of the wall by Liverpool. That wasn’t the fault of Dunk or the officials.

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Re: Question for referees on here

Post by Hillman avenger »

yes they didnt get themselves sorted
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Re: Question for referees on here

Post by Reg »

This reminds me of why I stopped replying to Lucky’s posts.
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Zambo
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Re: Question for referees on here

Post by Zambo »

Just watched the highlights. Ref handled everything correctly.
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Re: Question for referees on here

Post by JW90 »

Question about offside, Zam. The referee has the right to "ignore" the flag, doesn't he? I know the linesman has a better view and is a better guide but the referee can still allow the game to continue even if the flag has gone up?

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Zambo
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Re: Question for referees on here

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JW90 wrote:Question about offside, Zam. The referee has the right to "ignore" the flag, doesn't he? I know the linesman has a better view and is a better guide but the referee can still allow the game to continue even if the flag has gone up?

Yeah the geezer with the flag is there to assist, so there should be no problem with overruling. However as you say it, is not very often that the ref is in a better position to judge offside than the assistant, that's why you very rarely see the ref ignoring the flag or acknowledging that he has seen it, but he isn't going with it.

It also brings up another subject JW, and that is assistants seem to be afraid at times to make decisions, even the direction at throw ins and imo, this down to the over emphasising of what they call 'teamwork'. However, the importance of all agreeing should not wipe out all officials giving their opinion, with the ref being the one who makes the final decision. In fact it causes indecision and uncertainty.
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