Saggers

[sjbarca]

After all the shit they've given to Arsenal recently and 24 hours of Spurs coverage since last night, turned on Saggers and what are they talking about in hushed tones? Cycling FFS.

Then again, maybe that's a relief?

Have they got David Walsh on? He's the man on this stuff.

Haven't heard Walsh on this latest news anywhere?

[tennisman]

After all the shit they've given to Arsenal recently and 24 hours of Spurs coverage since last night, turned on Saggers and what are they talking about in hushed tones? Cycling FFS.

Then again, maybe that's a relief?

Have they got David Walsh on? He's the man on this stuff.

Haven't heard Walsh on this latest news anywhere?

I saw him being interviewed on one channel or another a couple of nights ago, Dougie.

[the puddin]

Walsh is the most ridiculous character in all of this.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

How come cav isn't probed? Because his wife has legendary tits?

[Carlos J]

She does, dear old Peta Todd. Anyway, quite enjoyed the show. Martha (daughter of Martin, neice of Simon) Kelner getting more airtime.

[ccreds]

What Saggers said a while back i remember it better now. He was making the comparison with top yards on the flat with 2yo's and big clubs and their academies. All they need to do is buy up the best and only need a few percentage to be successful as 2yo's and youth level and you can ship off the rest ( I think that's what he was on about. I didn't quite catch it at first). A philosophy copied these days in the football game.

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

Why didn't he break the pay story? Too busy flapping on twatter?

[tennisman]

What Saggers said a while back i remember it better now. He was making the comparison with top yards on the flat with 2yo's and big clubs and their academies. All they need to do is buy up the best and only need a few percentage to be successful as 2yo's and youth level and you can ship off the rest ( I think that's what he was on about. I didn't quite catch it at first). A philosophy copied these days in the football game.

Academies - A topic that never fails to make my grumpy old git blood boil.

Back in the pre-academy days when they had school boy forms players, then apprentices, a very small number of that smaller number made pro and a small percentage of that figure made the club 1st teams.

I remember at QPR, who had that system and 2 teams in the S.E. Counties League, one time, to demonstrate how tough it was to get through they talked about Bobby Finch who had got through the pathway and made Rangers' 1st team. He didn't become a regular.

Now, the academies sweep up vastly bigger numbers of juniors at frankly ridiculous ages (I've coached small children in large numbers for many years and have some experience of this)

- fill them with ideas of making a life as a pro

- cover them in club kit

- make their parents drive many miles to often remote training locations

- coach them with coaches who are not necessarily specialists in how to coach age and stage approaches or know simply how to get on with kids (sorry Dougie!)

- restrict their local football with their mates outside the academy

- start spitting them back out from still young ages (often before they've even been through their growth spurts) for all the reasons they used in the past (sorry son, you're not big enough)

- provide no post academy care to ensure they fit back into the local football scene at an appropriate level.

- start importing juniors from overseas at the teenage years, who gradually take a larger and larger share of the player pool, so reducing the opportunities for local lads who supposedly, the whole academy system was created for.

Nearly 10 years ago, a young Manchester City coach at my gym told me that the plan for the City academy was to create a situation where they wouldn't have to spend anything on players. I thought at the time that I'd believe that when I saw it.

Between 2010 and 2016, Manchester City spent £780m (gross) on transfers. They are top of that PL league too by a long way (too).

How many players from their academy at the upper levels have come through to the 1st team? One - Phil Foden for 3 games so far.

How much have they spent on their academy in that period? I don't have the figure but it's not going to be a small one.

(I am sick to death about just about everyone waxing lyrical about Manchester City and their lovely football bearing in mind the above expenditures. Let's see how Stoke City or West Bromwich Albion or frankly, anyone / everyone else would perform with similar expenditures)

So comparing the development of horse with academy players is a bit weird.

Maybe you've got more chance of making it as a horse?

Then again, they shoot horses, don't they?

Or maybe Saggers should get into a bit moire details about the academy system or would he not want to offend all of those people who 'do good work'?

For me, get all junior development away from the pro clubs and back into fantastic junior set ups like my mate has at Glebe FC where they have 32 junior sides and a pathway up into the 1st team who play in the Kent League.

[EddieCheddar]

After all the shit they've given to Arsenal recently and 24 hours of Spurs coverage since last night, turned on Saggers and what are they talking about in hushed tones? Cycling FFS.

Then again, maybe that's a relief?

Have they got David Walsh on? He's the man on this stuff.

I disagree. Paul Kimmage is the closest thing to an authority on cycling you will find. Bitter as you like but he never took a step back in relation to cycling, unlike Walsh.

Kimmage is now a pantomime Roy Keane ‘lite’ but his commitment to truth within cycling is the very reason he’s on the outside of the sport and rabble rousing on Rugby etc in the Irish Indie.

David Walsh will forever be tainted for his wide eyed association with team Sky.

I no longer believe a single word that comes out of his mouth.

[delboy1983]

What Saggers said a while back i remember it better now. He was making the comparison with top yards on the flat with 2yo's and big clubs and their academies. All they need to do is buy up the best and only need a few percentage to be successful as 2yo's and youth level and you can ship off the rest ( I think that's what he was on about. I didn't quite catch it at first). A philosophy copied these days in the football game.

Academies - A topic that never fails to make my grumpy old git blood boil.

Back in the pre-academy days when they had school boy forms players, then apprentices, a very small number of that smaller number made pro and a small percentage of that figure made the club 1st teams.

I remember at QPR, who had that system and 2 teams in the S.E. Counties League, one time, to demonstrate how tough it was to get through they talked about Bobby Finch who had got through the pathway and made Rangers' 1st team. He didn't become a regular.

Now, the academies sweep up vastly bigger numbers of juniors at frankly ridiculous ages (I've coached small children in large numbers for many years and have some experience of this)

- fill them with ideas of making a life as a pro

- cover them in club kit

- make their parents drive many miles to often remote training locations

- coach them with coaches who are not necessarily specialists in how to coach age and stage approaches or know simply how to get on with kids (sorry Dougie!)

- restrict their local football with their mates outside the academy

- start spitting them back out from still young ages (often before they've even been through their growth spurts) for all the reasons they used in the past (sorry son, you're not big enough)

- provide no post academy care to ensure they fit back into the local football scene at an appropriate level.

- start importing juniors from overseas at the teenage years, who gradually take a larger and larger share of the player pool, so reducing the opportunities for local lads who supposedly, the whole academy system was created for.

Nearly 10 years ago, a young Manchester City coach at my gym told me that the plan for the City academy was to create a situation where they wouldn't have to spend anything on players. I thought at the time that I'd believe that when I saw it.

Between 2010 and 2016, Manchester City spent £780m (gross) on transfers. They are top of that PL league too by a long way (too).

How many players from their academy at the upper levels have come through to the 1st team? One - Phil Foden for 3 games so far.

How much have they spent on their academy in that period? I don't have the figure but it's not going to be a small one.

(I am sick to death about just about everyone waxing lyrical about Manchester City and their lovely football bearing in mind the above expenditures. Let's see how Stoke City or West Bromwich Albion or frankly, anyone / everyone else would perform with similar expenditures)

So comparing the development of horse with academy players is a bit weird.

Maybe you've got more chance of making it as a horse?

Then again, they shoot horses, don't they?

Or maybe Saggers should get into a bit moire details about the academy system or would he not want to offend all of those people who 'do good work'?

For me, get all junior development away from the pro clubs and back into fantastic junior set ups like my mate has at Glebe FC where they have 32 junior sides and a pathway up into the 1st team who play in the Kent League.

Yeah- Tennisman that sums up academy life 100%
Phil Foden will not be anywhere near a regular with Man City nor will any of the rest of them that are on loan all over the world.
For Citteh read Chelsea
Foden's loan spell will be next season and it will be downhill from there.
It was always ,sign the best ,then a cull before they turn professional with only a few progressing ,now it's much harder than that.

More chance at the moment for a kid starting off lower down including conference ,getting noticed,getting his club some money and trying to move upwards that way.
Why that should be is baffling and a disgrace from the big clubs who want finished articles with sell on value now

[JimmyDee]

- restrict their local football with their mates outside the academy.

That's the worst of a long list of bad things. What you want to do as a child is to have a game with your mates, but that simple pleasure is denied them. One can only imagine the humiliation when the academy kicks them out and they have to go crawling back to the people they were told weren't good enough to mix with.

[tennisman]

After all the shit they've given to Arsenal recently and 24 hours of Spurs coverage since last night, turned on Saggers and what are they talking about in hushed tones? Cycling FFS.

Then again, maybe that's a relief?

Have they got David Walsh on? He's the man on this stuff.

I disagree. Paul Kimmage is the closest thing to an authority on cycling you will find. Bitter as you like but he never took a step back in relation to cycling, unlike Walsh.

Kimmage is now a pantomime Roy Keane ‘lite’ but his commitment to truth within cycling is the very reason he’s on the outside of the sport and rabble rousing on Rugby etc in the Irish Indie.

David Walsh will forever be tainted for his wide eyed association with team Sky.

I no longer believe a single word that comes out of his mouth.

Aha, didn't know Walsh aligned himself with Sky.

Although he was sounding quite critical in the interview I mentioned above.

He worked with Kimmage on a lot of the Armstrong stuff, if I recall from his book (s).

[tennisman]

- restrict their local football with their mates outside the academy.

That's the worst of a long list of bad things. What you want to do as a child is to have a game with your mates, but that simple pleasure is denied them. One can only imagine the humiliation when the academy kicks them out and they have to go crawling back to the people they were told weren't good enough to mix with.

Exactly.

[Carlos J]

A lady I work with talks about her sons U8 football team. They were not great. He was not great according to her. Next I hear he is at some Norwich City FC Academy. Wow and shite. Must be a trawl and he was swept up in the net.

Get a club tracksuit and water bottle and training once a week will not turn him into a soccer superstar.

As per the old thing about the Arse You can have great athletic skills and teach them to play football, you have a load of athletes with basic soccer skills.

But you can not teach football, how to read football, it is cerebral, you have it or not. The chitter chatter, even with pundits on the telly, you know those who see and those whom read are not knowing. Some know, soccer cares on for coin regardless.

[tennisman]

A lady I work with talks about her sons U8 football team. They were not great. He was not great according to her. Next I hear he is at some Norwich City FC Academy. Wow and shite. Must be a trawl and he was swept up in the net.

Get a club tracksuit and water bottle and training once a week will not turn him into a soccer superstar.

As per the old thing about the Arse You can have great athletic skills and teach them to play football, you have a load of athletes with basic soccer skills.

But you can not teach football, how to read football, it is cerebral, you have it or not. The chitter chatter, even with pundits on the telly, you know those who see and those whom read are not knowing. Some know, soccer cares on for coin regardless.

Carlos, as the years passed when I was coaching tennis to juniors, when chatting with parents about the whole issue of development, enjoyment etc, I found myself saying the same thing over and over; that above all else, things start and end with motivation.

If a junior at any age isn't really into it, regardless of their skill level, they will not be able to get right up there.

Equally, if a juniro appears to have limited ability at any one time, never write them off as they may develop in a different way to others and if they are motivated, who knows how far they can get.

The 10,000 hours model is often mis-understood - that if you just plough hour after hour into a junior's development and reach c10,000, then they can reach world class.

You have to have so much more than just a quantity of hours.

But the mistake in many sports is that coaches and clubs seek to spot the early achievers and then swamp them in coaching. They 'cut' as the yanks say, the ones who everyone looks at and says, no to.

one of the most average juniors I coached at 6 years old but one who was mad about tennis, started to show that he could compete. 12 years later, he was ranked in the top 10 U18 players in the UK with a win against the then #1.

He is at University now and I think will play top county / club tennis as he realised that the step up from top U18 juniors into the lower ranks of the pros is a huge one with each step up to where the likes of Murray and Kyle Edmund reside.

It's the Walcott situation.

Theo has done pretty well by most people's standards.

But maybe he should have been an athlete and trained up to be a 100m runner?

First and main job with juniors is to give time as many chances as you can to try out as many sports as you can. Then see which one lights a fire. Pursue THAT one, regardless of their skill level in that sport or any other.

Applying this point to Theo, the question must be asked as to which sport Theo chose. I wouldn't want and never wanted, even when I was a teenager with some pushy teachers in cricket, telling me what I should do and I reacted against this and went my own path, one I was happy with.