Democracy

[mark]

The Grauniad wants me to register before allowing me access to the link, Hillman. I'm not doing that.

But the one thing I would say is that I don't believe we live in a democracy. I don't believe the UK has ever been a democracy.
Wev are governed by a coalition of vested interests.

And there's fuck all you and I can do about it.

Underrated post

Agreed. A coalition of vested and nefarious interests. Now seduced by cooperation with foreign agencies. Those who publicly fight against globalisation are pursuing their own private globalisation idealogies.

[delboy1983]

Momentous times starting off with an Armageddon warning on global warming .
Followed by
USA/China trade deals
Brexit
Covid -19
Racial powder keg in USA
Threat of War between China and Usa

Meanwhile through all of this how quiet has Putin and Russia been.
Putin on the verge of being in power for another 16 years.

Democracy-least of our problems.

I would worry about Revolution throughout the world with a big hint of Russian Communism at the tiller

[AlcoholBrazil]

What is worse than all the above was the suspension of sporting events.

[Vespa]

Were you equally as outraged when over 80% of those MP's elected to the Commons in 2017 were elected on manifesto's promising to honour the referendum result & implement the decision?

And then did precisely the opposite?

There wasn't a majority in Parliament. MPs were elected on their manifesto and voted aligned to that manifesto. Even today I doubt anyone could tell me what Brexit will look like, the government have stopped talking about the policy - I suspect because they don't want to piss people off.

For example, they've lowered the bar to work in the UK for the entire World. Which is clearly aligned to the trend that trade deals with the likes of China and India often include provision for Chinese and Indians to work in those countries.

[Hillman avenger]

Momentous times starting off with an Armageddon warning on global warming .
Followed by
USA/China trade deals
Brexit
Covid -19
Racial powder keg in USA
Threat of War between China and Usa

Meanwhile through all of this how quiet has Putin and Russia been.
Putin on the verge of being in power for another 16 years.

Democracy-least of our problems.

I would worry about Revolution throughout the world with a big hint of Russian Communism at the tiller

Do you really think Russia is communist now?
It is totalitarian, which the communist regimes were too.
But arguably not communist.
Putin was involved in flogging off all the state assets, which is why he is so fabulously rich, but also has a network of billionaires who owe him enormously. That's a major channel through which he exercises influence in our politics.

[Eaststand]

Yeah Russia isn't communist.

Putin is hilarious though. Resetting his terms to zero.

[Royal24s]

Momentous times starting off with an Armageddon warning on global warming .
Followed by
USA/China trade deals
Brexit
Covid -19
Racial powder keg in USA
Threat of War between China and Usa

Meanwhile through all of this how quiet has Putin and Russia been.
Putin on the verge of being in power for another 16 years.

Democracy-least of our problems.

I would worry about Revolution throughout the world with a big hint of Russian Communism at the tiller

Do you really think Russia is communist now?
It is totalitarian, which the communist regimes were too.
But arguably not communist.
Putin was involved in flogging off all the state assets, which is why he is so fabulously rich, but also has a network of billionaires who owe him enormously. That's a major channel through which he exercises influence in our politics.

Careful Hillman... the whole thing of fake Russian involvement in everything you don't like is reliant on people vaguely associating them with the KGB and bad guys in old James Bond movies. You'll destroy your own arguments if you start introducing elements of the truth or admitting realities like that.

[Hillman avenger]

That's why you simply don't know or don't want to know.

The Russian interference now has little to do with the KGB, secrets or any of that. It is about destabilising the west, and that is achieved through corrupting its politicians. Primarily with money.

Which has been the story for at least eight years. Which is why you have the Russian billionaires in London shovelling money into the Tories. Why Leave had the funds it did. And so on.

[Eaststand]

OK buddy.

[Holden Mcgroyne]

Hes not entirely wrong. Theresa may had a brexit deal set up, which Rees Hogg and his ERG cronies torpedoed. Otherwise it could've been ratified at that point and brexit progressed.

Only for boris to later negotiate with more or less the same deal.

Boris didn't care about Brexit. He used it as a tool to get the top job.

Would have sailed through parliament if Labour hadn't been determined to play party politics all the way to the end.

There's a few dozen MP's who'd still be in their jobs as well

Ho hum.

[The Tick]

Hes not entirely wrong. Theresa may had a brexit deal set up, which Rees Hogg and his ERG cronies torpedoed. Otherwise it could've been ratified at that point and brexit progressed.

Only for boris to later negotiate with more or less the same deal.

Boris didn't care about Brexit. He used it as a tool to get the top job.

Would have sailed through parliament if Labour hadn't been determined to play party politics all the way to the end.

There's a few dozen MP's who'd still be in their jobs as well

Ho hum.

Theresa may had a working majority by way of the DUP deal. If they and the ERG tories voted for her Brexit deal, the other parties' actions would've not held any sway.

[Royal24s]

That's why you simply don't know or don't want to know.

The Russian interference now has little to do with the KGB, secrets or any of that. It is about destabilising the west, and that is achieved through corrupting its politicians. Primarily with money.

Which has been the story for at least eight years. Which is why you have the Russian billionaires in London shovelling money into the Tories. Why Leave had the funds it did. And so on.

Always has been Hilly, but it's actually a lot less now than in the socialist days.
Of course they use their intelligence people for stuff like that, as we do, as the USA does, as fucking France does !!!!
It's all very low level stuff though and the only thing new is people trying to weaponise it to smear domestic political opponents.

At this point the Americans are also using it to irritate and inconvenience Putin. It happens I'm afraid and it's always happened. They're showing you a little glimpse of it to inflame you and you shouldn't fall for it really .

[Holden Mcgroyne]

Hes not entirely wrong. Theresa may had a brexit deal set up, which Rees Hogg and his ERG cronies torpedoed. Otherwise it could've been ratified at that point and brexit progressed.

Only for boris to later negotiate with more or less the same deal.

Boris didn't care about Brexit. He used it as a tool to get the top job.

Would have sailed through parliament if Labour hadn't been determined to play party politics all the way to the end.

There's a few dozen MP's who'd still be in their jobs as well

Ho hum.

Theresa may had a working majority by way of the DUP deal. If they and the ERG tories voted for her Brexit deal, the other parties' actions would've not held any sway.

May's deal was in virtually every respect the same as what a Labour government would have negotiated and the best any party was going to get from the EU. They played party politics otherwise how could Starmer during cross party negotiations condemn a document that had been copied and pasted from his own proposals ?

[The Tick]

May was leading a tory government with a working majority. If her party had been united behind her instead of indulging the ERG, Brexit wouldn't have been delayed. It was her party's own skull surgery that messed things up.

[Eaststand]

and we're still going to leave