Last night's Question Time

[birdie]

Seems a good time to raise this, with the discussions going on, on the Meghan Markle thread about racism (casual and perceived).

On last night's QT, a member of the panel said that one of her friends can no longer speak to her daughter in her native tongue 'because people abuse her'. She said it was a bad time to be in the UK because of this. An audience member replied 'You're labelling the whole country as being racist'.

I can see both points of view. Firstly, I don't believe that the panel member's friend can't ever speak in her first language without being abused. I believe it happens, because we have racists in the country, but not everyone who travels on a bus who is from the UK is racist. On the other hand, the panellist's friend, because of the abuse, has said that she now doesn't speak in her native language because of the abuse she has received. We have a problem in this country that causes that, and I don't know the answer to it, but at the same time I can understand people getting pissed off because it seems that the label comes out far too often and it is used to pigeonhole.

This is a very good and balanced article from the DM imo.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Greer.html

I saw that too, and I thought, to quote BoJo, a load of humbug.
When I go to the local blood tub for my quarterly appointment the majority of people in the waiting room don't have English as a first language, no one bats an eyelid, the majority of the staff aren't English, and I often walk down the local High Street and have a silent count of how many people I hear speaking English, sometimes I don't hear anyone speak English until I get to the Supermarket, the woman who apparently is too frightened to speak Polish to her kid will, if my guess is correct, be obviously not English simply because she will have an eastern European accent. so will be just as obviously a target as if she was speaking Polish, so if she doesn't want to be abused she'd better just STFU.
Bonnie Greer has such a chip on her shoulder she could build a whole bookcase, her American accent alone shows she's not British, but, as with her friend, no one would know until she opens her mouth, so perhaps she should shut up too.

[Hillman avenger]

Nicely put.
And in such exemplary English.

[birdie]

Nicely put.
And in such exemplary English.

Feel free to correct the obvious mistooks, this is a conversation not a degree essay.

[m4rkb]

I was taught never start a sentence with the word 'and'.

It seems some people can't write two sentences totalling a mere seven words without making grammatical errors themselves, yet feel obliged to lecture others.

[Hillman avenger]

Given the topic, proficiency in English is relevant.
Birdie's posts are always had to read because there is no punctuation.

[birdie]

Given the topic, proficiency in English is relevant.
Birdie's posts are always hadto read because there is no punctuation.

But you don't have to, it isn't compulsory, even though it is had.

[Hillman avenger]

Yes, a typo.
I will try to prevent those. Will you try to make your posts readable? Surely that's what you intend?

[birdie]

Yes, a typo.
I will try to prevent those.Will you try to make your posts readable? Surely that's what you intend?

I depends on how many complaints there are, but as I said before, please feel free to correct and post up the corrected version.

[m4rkb]

I don't have any trouble deciphering even the worst grammar myself, but it seems to be a problem with some. Perhaps that's why they have difficulties understanding posts written in what the rest of us see as plain English.

[Petingo]

Bonnie hinted that Piers Morgan has been very vituperative toward Mrs, Sussex.

Is this true....l hate the fucker and never watch owt he is on.

[finchman]

I was once abused for speaking English in the Outer Hebrides, it was in 1974.

[Petingo]

I was once abused for speaking English in the Outer Hebrides, it was in 1974.

They probably thought you were Polish or sommat.

They don’t meet many Wiganers in t’ Outer ‘ebrides, Finch

You probably sounded very exotic to the locals

[birdie]

I was once abused for speaking English in the Outer Hebrides, it was in 1974.

They probably thought you were Polish or sommat.

They don’t meet many Wiganers in t’ Outer ‘ebrides, Finch

You probably sounded very exotic to the locals

I wonder anyone can understand some of the people from the Isles, there are a few Scots MP's in the Chamber who have very broad accents which I do have difficulty in getting my ears around and I'm not the only one, a few months ago during questions one of them asked Sir Paul Beresford (New Zealand by birth) a question, Sir Paul couldn't quite get the gist so asked him to repeat the question, again, he couldn't understand it so said that perhaps it was because of his antipodean brain but he couldn't understand what the 'honorable gentleman' was saying but if the honorable gentleman put his question in writing he would make sure to reply to him.

Going back to what Bonnie Greer said about her Polish friend, she said that the friends daughter was losing her maternal tongue because the mother couldn't speak to her in it on the bus.
That is utter tosh, if the mother speaks to her in Polish at home the couple of hours outside the home isn't going to make any difference, that remark could, by some, be considered just a racist as the alleged abuse quoted by Greer.

[Petingo]

I was once abused for speaking English in the Outer Hebrides, it was in 1974.

They probably thought you were Polish or sommat.

They don’t meet many Wiganers in t’ Outer ‘ebrides, Finch

You probably sounded very exotic to the locals

I wonder anyone can understand some of the people from the Isles, there are a few Scots MP's in the Chamber who have very broad accents which I do have difficulty in getting my ears around and I'm not the only one, a few months ago during questions one of them asked Sir Paul Beresford (New Zealand by birth) a question, Sir Paul couldn't quite get the gist so asked him to repeat the question, again, he couldn't understand it so said that perhaps it was because of his antipodean brain but he couldn't understand what the 'honorable gentleman' was saying but if the honorable gentleman put his question in writing he would make sure to reply to him.

Going back to what Bonnie Greer said about her Polish friend, she said that the friends daughter was losing her maternal tongue because the mother couldn't speak to her in it on the bus.
That is utter tosh, if the mother speaks to her in Polish at home the couple of hours outside the home isn't going to make any difference, that remark could, by some, be considered just a racist as the alleged abuse quoted by Greer.

That is not what I took from Bonnie's remark, Bird.

I think she said she didn't speak to her in Polish at home because she did not want the daughter speaking to her in that tongue whilst out and so she was trying not to normalize the speaking of it between them.

I was a big taken aback at first and thought "No...that can't be right...not in my liberal England".

But then I realise how the tolerant England of liberal values is under attack from demagoguery spouted by Johnson, Farage and the rest of the Brexit cheerleaders and what she says resonates.

No one on this forum knows how non natives in this country are feeling and as such we are in no position to contradict her.

[birdie]

I was once abused for speaking English in the Outer Hebrides, it was in 1974.

They probably thought you were Polish or sommat.

They don’t meet many Wiganers in t’ Outer ‘ebrides, Finch

You probably sounded very exotic to the locals

I wonder anyone can understand some of the people from the Isles, there are a few Scots MP's in the Chamber who have very broad accents which I do have difficulty in getting my ears around and I'm not the only one, a few months ago during questions one of them asked Sir Paul Beresford (New Zealand by birth) a question, Sir Paul couldn't quite get the gist so asked him to repeat the question, again, he couldn't understand it so said that perhaps it was because of his antipodean brain but he couldn't understand what the 'honorable gentleman' was saying but if the honorable gentleman put his question in writing he would make sure to reply to him.

Going back to what Bonnie Greer said about her Polish friend, she said that the friends daughter was losing her maternal tongue because the mother couldn't speak to her in it on the bus.
That is utter tosh, if the mother speaks to her in Polish at home the couple of hours outside the home isn't going to make any difference, that remark could, by some, be considered just a racist as the alleged abuse quoted by Greer.

That is not what I took from Bonnie's remark, Bird.

I think she said she didn't speak to her in Polish at home because she did not want the daughter speaking to her in that tongue whilst out and so she was trying not to normalize the speaking of it between them.

I was a big taken aback at first and thought "No...that can't be right...not in my liberal England".

But then I realise how the tolerant England of liberal values is under attack from demagoguery spouted by Johnson, Farage and the rest of the Brexit cheerleaders and what she says resonates.

No one on this forum knows how non natives in this country are feeling and as such we are in no position to contradict her.

As much as I don't wish to contradict an elder of the forum, but, with the greatest of respect, I think ole Pet has it slightly, err, incorrect.
If you click on the link Zambo put up to the hated DM you will see that on the video clip la Greer clearly says that the woman doesn't speak to her daughter in Polish whilst in public, she also said, although it isn't on that clip but can be found on catchup, that the daughter was losing her maternal tongue because the mother wont use it in public, that remark is just plain stupid and aimed at stirring up exactly what Greer says she deplores, and anyway, unless the woman came to the UK as a very young child she will speak English with an eastern European accent, a prime example of this is the MP Daniel Kawczynski, who came to England at the age of six and speaks English without any trace of accent.
No child will lose the ability to speak a parental language if it is used at home, so the short time spent on public transport will have no effect whatsoever so Greer is talking sheer twaddle, my husbands father was Italian born, he spoke only Italian at home, English, with an Italian accent, in public, my husband spoke English in public and Italian only with his family, but with an English accent