Sally Challen.

[Royal24s]

Indeed , but this latest bit of legal insanity shows that the law is as vulnerable to political pressure groups as the ballot box, which is equally serious.

[Hillman avenger]

For centuries our law has been subject to pressure from interested groups.
Some of it dubious.
But we have only recently recognised in law a reality which many of us have observed in life- coercive control.
I have personally seen situations where people-usually women- are subjected to constant humiliation, abuse and ridicule. Many of the victims have to accept it because they have no possibility of sustaining themselves outside of the marriage, Sadly some of them cope with it by starting to believe they somehow deserve to be subjected to it.
In this case, on top of all of the usual stuff, Challen openly used prostitutes. He had Christmas cards made of him with a photo of a flash car and a couple of women.
This went on for thirty years.
Such experience is bound to create terrible mental problems in the victim.

[kancutlawns]

For centuries our law has been subject to pressure from interested groups.
Some of it dubious.
But we have only recently recognised in law a reality which many of us have observed in life- coercive control.
I have personally seen situations where people-usually women- are subjected to constant humiliation, abuse and ridicule. Many of the victims have to accept it because they have no possibility of sustaining themselves outside of the marriage, Sadly some of them cope with it by starting to believe they somehow deserve to be subjected to it.
In this case, on top of all of the usual stuff, Challen openly used prostitutes. He had Christmas cards made of him with a photo of a flash car and a couple of women.
This went on for thirty years.
Such experience is bound to create terrible mental problems in the victim.

It happens the other way too. Just because your anecdotal experience leans towards you favouring women in cases of manipulative and abusive relationships doesn’t mean women don’t do the same to men using their own children. It’s a very deep conversation to have and we all have our own opinions but not sure why constantly bludgeoning someone else’s skull can be confined unless I’m missing something in your comments.

[Royal24s]

Quote Hillman


You're just describing the particular nature of the provocation.
If she is insane, then she wouldn't be fit to enter a plea and so can't be convicted of manslaughter or murder.

Your argument seems to be that her husband's behaviour caused, over time, a form of mental illness which we had previously regarded as a murderous loss of temper.
Resultantly , she struck him over the head not once or twice , not even ten or fifteen times but kept on until she was certain he was dead.
Having left the mutilated corpse in a pool of blood, she got better !

We needn't worry that this is a person who might repeat this behaviour next time her patience wears thin in the face of behaviour she regards as provocative because this particular form of homicidal mania aligns perfectly with current political dogma that all women are victims.

In short you say that the victim deserved to die and the culprit's attack upon him was an acceptable alternative to leaving him and reporting any crime he might have committed because she's a woman.

Well , of course, if you're going for this strange argument which falls midway between mental incapacity and provocation, where one led to the other but we're unclear which way around that happened , then my extreme rhetorical comparison with jihadists isn't as ridiculous as I meant it to be .

I doubt that it would be difficult to find a psychiatrist who'd conclude that having seen the results of ariel bombardment or military action in some Mid East country created "terrible mental problems" in the London Bridge attackers, or as you have put it above "the victims" !

Thus, as in so many of your arguments generally, the culprit becomes the victim, the victim becomes the culprit, the innocent become guilty and the guilty become innocent.
Up becomes down, black becomes white, lies become truth and good becomes bad.

We know exactly where this tendency ultimately arises from, but when it eats it's way into Judcicial decisions as it gradually has into politics and society, it is a grave development indeed for Justice.

[Royal24s]

For centuries our law has been subject to pressure from interested groups.
Some of it dubious.
But we have only recently recognised in law a reality which many of us have observed in life- coercive control.
I have personally seen situations where people-usually women- are subjected to constant humiliation, abuse and ridicule. Many of the victims have to accept it because they have no possibility of sustaining themselves outside of the marriage, Sadly some of them cope with it by starting to believe they somehow deserve to be subjected to it.
In this case, on top of all of the usual stuff, Challen openly used prostitutes. He had Christmas cards made of him with a photo of a flash car and a couple of women.
This went on for thirty years.
Such experience is bound to create terrible mental problems in the victim.

It happens the other way too. Just because your anecdotal experience leans towards you favouring women in cases of manipulative and abusive relationships doesn’t mean women don’t do the same to men using their own children. It’s a very deep conversation to have and we all have our own opinions but not sure why constantly bludgeoning someone else’s skull can be confined unless I’m missing something in your comments.

That's a powerful point Lawns.
I've dealt with many cases where women have conducted campaigns of control, manipulation and blackmail against their estranged husbands or partners using the children and various other weapons which would easily cause a reasonable person to flip out.
We don't however allow the estranged husband to resolve the situation by battering their heads in with a blunt instrument.

[Hillman avenger]

Nobody is arguing that women don't do it to men also.

[Royal24s]

Nobody is arguing that women don't do it to men also.

Okay, so it's a homicidal free for all then ?
Does this mean that there's a similar defence regarding domestic violence ?
In fact, now you've created a loophole for wifebeaters , why should they stop at giving the woman a bit of a hiding -
they can just smash her brains in with a blunt instrument can't they ?

[kancutlawns]

Nobody is arguing that women don't do it to men also.

But you implied that because you know a lot of women that have been in manipulative relationships that it only happens one way. Don’t backtrack on what you said.

[kancutlawns]

Nobody is arguing that women don't do it to men also.

Okay, so it's a homicidal free for all then ?
Does this mean that there's a similar defence regarding domestic violence ?
In fact, now you've created a loophole for wifebeaters , why should they stop at giving the woman a bit of a hiding -
they can just smash her brains in with a blunt instrument can't they ?

Correct.

[Hillman avenger]

I didn't imply anything of the sort.
It is though, far more commonly men doing it to women.

[kancutlawns]

I didn't imply anything of the sort.
It is though, far more commonly men doing it to women.

Yes you did. Do you have some stats to back up your assertion? Do you also have stats to suggest that for a number of social reasons, men are reluctant to report instances where they have suffered abusive and manipulative behaviour at the hands of their partners?

[shivah]

For centuries our law has been subject to pressure from interested groups.
Some of it dubious.
But we have only recently recognised in law a reality which many of us have observed in life- coercive control.
I have personally seen situations where people-usually women- are subjected to constant humiliation, abuse and ridicule. Many of the victims have to accept it because they have no possibility of sustaining themselves outside of the marriage, Sadly some of them cope with it by starting to believe they somehow deserve to be subjected to it.
In this case, on top of all of the usual stuff, Challen openly used prostitutes. He had Christmas cards made of him with a photo of a flash car and a couple of women.
This went on for thirty years.
Such experience is bound to create terrible mental problems in the victim.

Yep, don't forget the likes of fucking Harriet Harman that under the pressure from a paedo group wanted to bring down the age of consent to about 3.
Dirty fucking bitch she is.

[Hillman avenger]

Just as well there wouldn't be the slightest chance of that happening then, isn't it?

[Royal24s]

I didn't imply anything of the sort.
It is though, far more commonly men doing it to women.

Ah, you see you did, intentionally or otherwise .
I'm sure that your argument was well intentioned, but you didn't stop to consider the full implications of such a precedent.
You're not expected to because the law is, as I've mentioned before , quite an intricate business and ,like all specialisms, we must all think twice before blundering in with what seems a beneficial political or social aim without thinking about the collateral damage it might cause.

In the spirit of my other post however, I apologise if I was employing jury tactics on you.
... I'm trying to be nice but it's hard for me , please bear with me.

[Zambo]

Saw last nights docu, and nothing changed my mind. You hit someone over the head with a hammer 20 times splattering their brains (man or woman) and you should be locked up for life. She put the hammer in a handbag and took it to the house. Now unless she was going to hang a few pictures, I would say that was pretty conclusive what her intentions were, it was glaringly punitive. Not surprised in the slightest she got released though