Left-wing/right-wing bollocks

[Hillman avenger]

It's getting worse.

Virtually every thread now descends , some quicker than others, into trading right-wing/left-wing labels.

It's a lazy and ineffective way of having debate.

They are a substitute for thought and only suggest that the author really doesn't know how to counter arguments. So they ultimately undermine the credibility of the poster.

It has reached farcical proportions today with the description of Kenneth Clarke as "left-wing". All he is doing is pointing out , from a position of some authority, the sheer vapidity of Johnson's stance and the trail of incompetence he has left behind him. And he's dead right ( in the sense of, correct).

We could really do without the Tory leadership fight degenerating into another left-right silliness. It's too important. It's distressing to see somebody whose whole life has been based on selfishness and ego, who can't be arsed to understand the case for the causes he claims to support , opposed by such a drone as Hunt. We should all be angry to see the leadership of this country being the plaything of two such people.

[carcinogen]

We're born, we procreate (some of us) and then die. That's all you need to get involved in.

[ToRmAtO]

It is poor debaters that have to pigeon hole people into a slot to make their argument.

[JudgeTedd]

We're born, we procreate (some of us) and then die. That's all you need to get involved in.

And treat other how we’d like to be treated.

Life is simple!!

[Zambo]

It's getting worse.

Virtually every thread now descends , some quicker than others, into trading right-wing/left-wing labels.

It's a lazy and ineffective way of having debate.

They are a substitute for thought and only suggest that the author really doesn't know how to counter arguments. So they ultimately undermine the credibility of the poster.

It has reached farcical proportions today with the description of Kenneth Clarke as "left-wing". All he is doing is pointing out , from a position of some authority, the sheer vapidity of Johnson's stance and the trail of incompetence he has left behind him. And he's dead right ( in the sense of, correct).

We could really do without the Tory leadership fight degenerating into another left-right silliness. It's too important. It's distressing to see somebody whose whole life has been based on selfishness and ego, who can't be arsed to understand the case for the causes he claims to support , opposed by such a drone as Hunt. We should all be angry to see the leadership of this country being the plaything of two such people.

The pigeonholing is stupid. As I have already said, not all of the Conservative Party is right wing, it is all relative. You mention Kenneth Clarke, are you saying he is right wing because he is a Tory? Everyone has their own ideas of what is right and what is left, but what we don't need is people on high horses lecturing and talking down to others as you have done in this thread. Not all people's views are 'farcical' just because they don't match yours. We all have ideas of what is left and what is right. They are opinions and not facts, but it doesn't give the likes of you the right to dismiss them or ridicule them.

Your idea of what is left wing and right wing differs to mine. So what, who wins, who gets to hold the 'I am right' Talkforum trophy aloft. In my opinion Kenneth Clarke identifies with economically and socially liberal views. You obvious disagree, but don't try telling and maneuvering others into posting in a way you want them to post.

[Vespa]

It's getting worse.

Virtually every thread now descends , some quicker than others, into trading right-wing/left-wing labels.

It's a lazy and ineffective way of having debate.

They are a substitute for thought and only suggest that the author really doesn't know how to counter arguments. So they ultimately undermine the credibility of the poster.

It has reached farcical proportions today with the description of Kenneth Clarke as "left-wing". All he is doing is pointing out , from a position of some authority, the sheer vapidity of Johnson's stance and the trail of incompetence he has left behind him. And he's dead right ( in the sense of, correct).

We could really do without the Tory leadership fight degenerating into another left-right silliness. It's too important. It's distressing to see somebody whose whole life has been based on selfishness and ego, who can't be arsed to understand the case for the causes he claims to support , opposed by such a drone as Hunt. We should all be angry to see the leadership of this country being the plaything of two such people.

Debate smarter people.

[Zippy]

Time for the Centrist Dads to step up.

[Zambo]

It's getting worse.

Virtually every thread now descends , some quicker than others, into trading right-wing/left-wing labels.

It's a lazy and ineffective way of having debate.

They are a substitute for thought and only suggest that the author really doesn't know how to counter arguments. So they ultimately undermine the credibility of the poster.

It has reached farcical proportions today with the description of Kenneth Clarke as "left-wing". All he is doing is pointing out , from a position of some authority, the sheer vapidity of Johnson's stance and the trail of incompetence he has left behind him. And he's dead right ( in the sense of, correct).

We could really do without the Tory leadership fight degenerating into another left-right silliness. It's too important. It's distressing to see somebody whose whole life has been based on selfishness and ego, who can't be arsed to understand the case for the causes he claims to support , opposed by such a drone as Hunt. We should all be angry to see the leadership of this country being the plaything of two such people.

Debate smarter people.

None around according to Hillman.

[Hillman avenger]

It's getting worse.

Virtually every thread now descends , some quicker than others, into trading right-wing/left-wing labels.

It's a lazy and ineffective way of having debate.

They are a substitute for thought and only suggest that the author really doesn't know how to counter arguments. So they ultimately undermine the credibility of the poster.

It has reached farcical proportions today with the description of Kenneth Clarke as "left-wing". All he is doing is pointing out , from a position of some authority, the sheer vapidity of Johnson's stance and the trail of incompetence he has left behind him. And he's dead right ( in the sense of, correct).

We could really do without the Tory leadership fight degenerating into another left-right silliness. It's too important. It's distressing to see somebody whose whole life has been based on selfishness and ego, who can't be arsed to understand the case for the causes he claims to support , opposed by such a drone as Hunt. We should all be angry to see the leadership of this country being the plaything of two such people.

The pigeonholing is stupid. As I have already said, not all of the Conservative Party is right wing, it is all relative.
You agree it is stupid, but then try to go on and do it.
You mention Kenneth Clarke, are you saying he is right wing because he is a Tory?
No. That's exactly the point. He is a pragmatist and he is calling out the shitshow Johnson is generating.
Everyone has their own ideas of what is right and what is left, but what we don't need is people on high horses lecturing and talking down to others as you have done in this thread.
No I am simply asking for better debate than the childish labelling.
Not all people's views are 'farcical' just because they don't match yours.
Go read it again. Not what I said.
We all have ideas of what is left and what is right. They are opinions and not facts, but it doesn't give the likes of you the right to dismiss them or ridicule them.

Your idea of what is left wing and right wing differs to mine. So what, who wins, who gets to hold the 'I am right' Talkforum trophy aloft. In my opinion Kenneth Clarke identifies with economically and socially liberal views. You obvious disagree,
Didn't say that either
but don't try telling and maneuvering others into posting in a way you want them to post.
Let's just try engaging brains

[Royal24s]

Its not so much left vs. right as it is left vs. the rest.

Socialism is an entirely discredited and evil philosophy which has brought nothing but suffering to humanity. Those who follow it rarely understand its origins or dogma, and it has become a catch all phrase for wickedness, oppression and a small number of elitists holding power and money by exploiting anyone stupid enough to believe their dishonest promises and transparent propoganda.
In this sense it is understandable that Kenneth Clarke is branded left wing, since the fat greedy globalist checks most of the boxes. It also emphasises that the whole remaining remnants of the former left wing has been absorbed into the George Soros Globalist movement which, like Kenneth Clarke, works tirelessly for the enrichment of the rich and the disenfranchisement of the poor.

I'm often accused of being right wing here, simply because I find myself opposing tyrany, greed ,warmongering and evil. I'm not right wing though, I'm just opposed to all those things and the left are generally for them , whether knowingly or not.

There have been arguments for years here whether socialism is fundamentally anti Semitic , which it is, and so if you argue on that you'll be said to be right wing.

Most tellingly, socialism opposes and denies God, so it's therefore on the opposite side to many people.

Strictly then, the word "left" in its original sense didn't have the meaning it does today, but that happens with language , ( ie. the word "gay").

Perhaps we should qualify it in the way "New" Labour did. I suggest that we use the term "left behind" instead, which has the advantage of adding two very apposite shades of meaning with the addition of only one word.

[Hillman avenger]

See what I mean?
An entirely self-contained post

[Zambo]

It's getting worse.

Virtually every thread now descends , some quicker than others, into trading right-wing/left-wing labels.

It's a lazy and ineffective way of having debate.

They are a substitute for thought and only suggest that the author really doesn't know how to counter arguments. So they ultimately undermine the credibility of the poster.

It has reached farcical proportions today with the description of Kenneth Clarke as "left-wing". All he is doing is pointing out , from a position of some authority, the sheer vapidity of Johnson's stance and the trail of incompetence he has left behind him. And he's dead right ( in the sense of, correct).

We could really do without the Tory leadership fight degenerating into another left-right silliness. It's too important. It's distressing to see somebody whose whole life has been based on selfishness and ego, who can't be arsed to understand the case for the causes he claims to support , opposed by such a drone as Hunt. We should all be angry to see the leadership of this country being the plaything of two such people.

The pigeonholing is stupid. As I have already said, not all of the Conservative Party is right wing, it is all relative.
You agree it is stupid, but then try to go on and do it.

Nope I said imo, Clarke is not right wing. I haven't pigeonholed him. You appear to say I have because you disagree with that. Or are there any other reasons?

You mention Kenneth Clarke, are you saying he is right wing because he is a Tory?
No. That's exactly the point. He is a pragmatist and he is calling out the shitshow Johnson is generating.
Everyone has their own ideas of what is right and what is left, but what we don't need is people on high horses lecturing and talking down to others as you have done in this thread.
No I am simply asking for better debate than the childish labelling.

That is dictating how others should debate and discuss. It might be childish to you for someone to say that in their opinion a politician is left wing or right wing, but what's the big deal? I consider a number of posters on here to be immature, but it's not against the forum rules. Try and be a little more tolerant

Not all people's views are 'farcical' just because they don't match yours.
Go read it again. Not what I said.

Yes you did, you said that because a politician was labelled left wing, the debate had reached farcical proportions

We all have ideas of what is left and what is right. They are opinions and not facts, but it doesn't give the likes of you the right to dismiss them or ridicule them.

Your idea of what is left wing and right wing differs to mine. So what, who wins, who gets to hold the 'I am right' Talkforum trophy aloft. In my opinion Kenneth Clarke identifies with economically and socially liberal views. You obvious disagree,
Didn't say that either
but don't try telling and maneuvering others into posting in a way you want them to post.
Let's just try engaging brains

That's how it came across

[subsub]

Discussing politics then someone brings religion into it
#irrational

[Jon Gout]

Odd how some who appear to hold many traditionally right wing views are uncomfortable with the label. Perhaps taking a political compass quiz would help them to recognise where their own beliefs lie. Here's a good one: https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

[JudgeTedd]

Odd how some who appear to hold many traditionally right wing views are uncomfortable with the label. Perhaps taking a political compass quiz would help them to recognise where their own beliefs lie. Here's a good one: https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Great quiz