Policeman killed

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

The crimes of nested quotation in this thread deserve severe punishment. You are supposedly intelligent people.

[Roy Twing]

Look at the statistics again. Gibraltar has a population of 34,000 people. One murder doesn’t mean they have the highest homicide rate in Europe. Even if they had one murder a year every year.

The stats are as usual, per 100,000 population, which is why they are meaningless for such 'relatively' low rates as homicides, - even in the USA, it's only in the low '000s.
That's why it's necessary to be able to compare wider violent crime rates, and you (and the troll) should be asking why the reports are not available since 2003.

[Roy Twing]

The report from 2001? That's your only source?

Great stuff.

Funnily enough, this very document was discussed on this very forum probably 10 or more years ago, and guess what, - your ilk of the day were making exactly the same excuses - your lot still refuses to actually discuss the figures, and now that there appears to be no appetite on the part of the powers that be to fund a newer research paper, you can keep on getting away with your tedious nonsense.

So no advance on an 18 year old report?

Joyful.

As you may have spotted, I had initially decided that it was a waste of time to expect you to debate, and intended to ignore you from now on, but I'll give it one more try for you to show that you are not a troll.
You are right in that the only report I can find to actually try to compare violent crime in many countries is now 18 years old, - you should, as I've said, be at least a little curious as to why that is.
What we know from that report though, is that violent crime in england & wales back then was running in the 7 or 8 hundreds of thousands per year, while comparable countries such as france & germany were running at around a quarter of our figures.
You try to sarcastically dismiss the figures as they are so out of date, so here, at least, are the ONS violent crime figures from 2003 until the present:
TOTAL VIOLENCE AGAINST THE PERSON
Year to March 03 - 708,742
Year to March 04 - 799,247
Year to March 05 - 845,673
Year to March 06 - 838,674
Year to March 07 - 814,865
Year to March 08 - 748,779
Year to March 09 - 709,008
Year to March 10 - 699,011
Year to March 11 - 665,486
Year to March 12 - 626,720
Year to March 13 - 601,141
Year to March 14 - 634,625
Year to March 15 - 778,198
Year to March 16 - 992,775
Year to March 17 - 1,171,141
Year to March 18 - 1,396,949
Year to March 19 - 1,671,039

I had to painstakingly copy them as I couldn't download the file itself, but anyway, the point being that you will note the figures remain pretty much in line with the 2001 report, in fact, showing a recent dramatic upturn - double the already huge figure in my initial report.

I've provided at least a partial update to the figures (which was your argument) - will you at least have the courtesy to acknowledge that you were wrong in your statement that 'we are not a relatively violent country' - even if not by far the most violent in western europe?

[Hillman avenger]

Try these. Latest comparisons I could find.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... urder-rate
UK 71st.
Worst in WE ( but not "by far")
Nobody is arguing that we are happy with the levels of crime.
We are arguing about what you do about it.

[Salem]

This appears only to be the case with certain members on here when it's Caucasian who are responsible for the crimes.

Race is only an issue when the suspect/perpetrator is not white. Religion is only an issue when the suspect/perpetrator is Muslim.

Don't take this the wrong way but that is utter bollocks .

According to the reports so far , this has something to do with the travelling community . As i have stated earlier on this thread , i'm unfortunate enough to live on an estate rife with travellers . All of them are white and as far as i can ascertain Christian . In fact , i think you will be hard pushed to find a traveller who is not white .

This is an heinous crime that should carry severe punishment whatever the colour / religion of the perpetrators .

Trying to score points by saying "If they'd have been black you'd have gone ape shit" demeans the memory of PC Andrew Harper . He's dead and instead of going on her honeymoon next week , his widow will be planning his funeral .

The bastards that killed him should rot in hell , no matter what colour / religion they are

[Roy Twing]

Try these. Latest comparisons I could find.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... urder-rate
UK 71st.
Worst in WE ( but not "by far")
Nobody is arguing that we are happy with the levels of crime.
We are arguing about what you do about it.

Again, you make the choice of looking at murder rates which, as I've repeatedly tried to explain, are such relatively low numbers as to be meaningless.
And one of 'your' number is arguing to the contrary, if you bothered to follow the posts on here.
As to 'what we do about it', - first we have understand fully who is doing 'it' and why, - and your lot flatly refuse to look at the whole picture, and as 'your lot' have the same mindset as those in power, we have no chance of doing anything about 'it', hence the fact that, as the figures I posted show, nothing is being done about 'it'.
Don't you get fed up of all the 'lessons will be learned', and 'our hearts go out to the victims' families' claptrap year after year? Nothing will change/ things will get worse and worse because you just aren't prepared to take off the blinkers.

[Carlos J]

Because they think he deserves another chance with yet another username thinking he is a reformed poster after having been banned from here about three times and trying to come back on with dozens of different usernames.

Exactly. Crazy

Who thinks Bobby deserves another chance, kancut? Not me.

Or because he is using different IPs from what Bobby did. Not the local library now, various others wifi.

A clear writing style as well. Is that enough for judge, jury and executioner?

Devon can continue here as long as he keeps on topic in threads and keeps away from personal remarks about other forum members in this section. You have been told.

Same as others should do. And it has been noted that others are getting a bit fresh in D&D with name calling and snide remarks recently.

So a call to all. Keep it to the debate and subject in hand. It ain't hard.

[Ralph]

This appears only to be the case with certain members on here when it's Caucasian who are responsible for the crimes.

Race is only an issue when the suspect/perpetrator is not white. Religion is only an issue when the suspect/perpetrator is Muslim.

Don't take this the wrong way but that is utter bollocks .

According to the reports so far , this has something to do with the travelling community . As i have stated earlier on this thread , i'm unfortunate enough to live on an estate rife with travellers . All of them are white and as far as i can ascertain Christian . In fact , i think you will be hard pushed to find a traveller who is not white .

This is an heinous crime that should carry severe punishment whatever the colour / religion of the perpetrators .

Trying to score points by saying "If they'd have been black you'd have gone ape shit" demeans the memory of PC Andrew Harper . He's dead and instead of going on her honeymoon next week , his widow will be planning his funeral .

The bastards that killed him should rot in hell , no matter what colour / religion they are

You’re the only one using this appalling tragedy to score points.

In your own words your estate is "rife" with travellers. You’re transparently using this to play out a grievance in your private life. Which on it’s own isn’t a problem but....

Citing the victims widow to attack people who don’t see exactly eye to eye with you is pretty lowlife & scummy behaviour.

Don’t project your own failings onto others.

[Devondevon]

This appears only to be the case with certain members on here when it's Caucasian who are responsible for the crimes.

Race is only an issue when the suspect/perpetrator is not white. Religion is only an issue when the suspect/perpetrator is Muslim.

Don't take this the wrong way but that is utter bollocks .

According to the reports so far , this has something to do with the travelling community . As i have stated earlier on this thread , i'm unfortunate enough to live on an estate rife with travellers . All of them are white and as far as i can ascertain Christian . In fact , i think you will be hard pushed to find a traveller who is not white .

This is an heinous crime that should carry severe punishment whatever the colour / religion of the perpetrators .

Trying to score points by saying "If they'd have been black you'd have gone ape shit" demeans the memory of PC Andrew Harper . He's dead and instead of going on her honeymoon next week , his widow will be planning his funeral .

The bastards that killed him should rot in hell , no matter what colour / religion they are

+1

Outstanding post!

[Ralph]

Because they think he deserves another chance with yet another username thinking he is a reformed poster after having been banned from here about three times and trying to come back on with dozens of different usernames.

Exactly. Crazy

Who thinks Bobby deserves another chance, kancut? Not me.

Or because he is using different IPs from what Bobby did. Not the local library now, various others wifi.

A clear writing style as well. Is that enough for judge, jury and executioner?

Devon can continue here as long as he keeps on topic in threads and keeps away from personal remarks about other forum members in this section. You have been told.

Same as others should do. And it has been noted that others are getting a bit fresh in D&D with name calling and snide remarks recently.

So a call to all. Keep it to the debate and subject in hand. It ain't hard.

How many lifetime bans do you have to get before you’re not allowed back under a different name?

[Ralph]

Look at the statistics again. Gibraltar has a population of 34,000 people. One murder doesn’t mean they have the highest homicide rate in Europe. Even if they had one murder a year every year.

The stats are as usual, per 100,000 population, which is why they are meaningless for such 'relatively' low rates as homicides, - even in the USA, it's only in the low '000s.
That's why it's necessary to be able to compare wider violent crime rates, and you (and the troll) should be asking why the reports are not available since 2003.

It’s the accepted method of comparing murder rates. The UK murder rate compared to other countries is low. Even some countries in Northern Europe that are often held up as good examples of a well functioning society have a higher murder rate than us.

This is a thread about a suspected murder after all. Violent crime doesn’t have a fixed definition so is a lot more difficult to measure and compare than homicide/murder.

[Roy Twing]

Look at the statistics again. Gibraltar has a population of 34,000 people. One murder doesn’t mean they have the highest homicide rate in Europe. Even if they had one murder a year every year.

The stats are as usual, per 100,000 population, which is why they are meaningless for such 'relatively' low rates as homicides, - even in the USA, it's only in the low '000s.
That's why it's necessary to be able to compare wider violent crime rates, and you (and the troll) should be asking why the reports are not available since 2003.

It’s the accepted method of comparing murder rates. The UK murder rate compared to other countries is low. Even some countries in Northern Europe that are often held up as good examples of a well functioning society have a higher murder rate than us.

This is a thread about a suspected murder after all. Violent crime doesn’t have a fixed definition so is a lot more difficult to measure and compare than homicide/murder.

OK - as long as we agree that gibraltar is the murder capital of western europe, then we can completely agree on your assessment.

As to violent crime specifically, - I was responding to someone making the claim that this is not a very violent country, - do you agree with that?

[Ralph]

Look at the statistics again. Gibraltar has a population of 34,000 people. One murder doesn’t mean they have the highest homicide rate in Europe. Even if they had one murder a year every year.

The stats are as usual, per 100,000 population, which is why they are meaningless for such 'relatively' low rates as homicides, - even in the USA, it's only in the low '000s.
That's why it's necessary to be able to compare wider violent crime rates, and you (and the troll) should be asking why the reports are not available since 2003.

It’s the accepted method of comparing murder rates. The UK murder rate compared to other countries is low. Even some countries in Northern Europe that are often held up as good examples of a well functioning society have a higher murder rate than us.

This is a thread about a suspected murder after all. Violent crime doesn’t have a fixed definition so is a lot more difficult to measure and compare than homicide/murder.

OK - as long as we agree that gibraltar is the murder capital of western europe, then we can completely agree on your assessment.

As to violent crime specifically, - I was responding to someone making the claim that this is not a very violent country, - do you agree with that?

You’ve changed it from Europe to Western Europe I notice. If Gibraltar, with a population of 35,000 has one murder a year every year, then yes it does have a high murder rate for Western Europe. If it doesn’t then people should use their common sense.

You’re anomaly hunting with simple homicide/murder rates and asking people to focus entirely on "violent crime" which doesn’t have a fixed definition.

Is threatening to beat someone up a "violent crime"? Depends who/which organisations you ask.

A gentle reminder. This is a thread about a suspected murder.

[shabbado]

Look at the statistics again. Gibraltar has a population of 34,000 people. One murder doesn’t mean they have the highest homicide rate in Europe. Even if they had one murder a year every year.

The stats are as usual, per 100,000 population, which is why they are meaningless for such 'relatively' low rates as homicides, - even in the USA, it's only in the low '000s.
That's why it's necessary to be able to compare wider violent crime rates, and you (and the troll) should be asking why the reports are not available since 2003.

It’s the accepted method of comparing murder rates. The UK murder rate compared to other countries is low. Even some countries in Northern Europe that are often held up as good examples of a well functioning society have a higher murder rate than us.

This is a thread about a suspected murder after all. Violent crime doesn’t have a fixed definition so is a lot more difficult to measure and compare than homicide/murder.

OK - as long as we agree that gibraltar is the murder capital of western europe, then we can completely agree on your assessment.

As to violent crime specifically, - I was responding to someone making the claim that this is not a very violent country, - do you agree with that?

You’ve changed it from Europe to Western Europe I notice. If Gibraltar, with a population of 35,000 has one murder a year every year, then yes it does have a high murder rate for Western Europe. If it doesn’t then people should use their common sense.

You’re anomaly hunting with simple homicide/murder rates and asking people to focus entirely on "violent crime" which doesn’t have a fixed definition.

Is threatening to beat someone up a "violent crime"? Depends who/which organisations you ask.

A gentle reminder. This is a thread about a suspected murder.

His original claim was 'This country is one of the most violent crime-ridden in the developed world*, certainly in europe.'

Goal posts have been shifted and mental gymnastics have been employed to where he's now solely discussing violent crime (not murders?) In Western Europe.

[Roy Twing]

As the saying goes- you can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink