Ex Tory Minister

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Vespa
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Re: Ex Tory Minister

Post by Vespa »

birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:04 pm
Vespa wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:16 pm
birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:26 pm As, I'm willing to bet, would any other Party, don't tell me you believe that the other party's would have called plod straight away.
Sadly I think they would try and cover it up as well. However, that doesn't excuse the Tory party, whose government policy is sexual assault victims should report the crimes to the police ASAP, tried to cover it up.

It's interesting to see suggestions that the alleged victim is somehow in the wrong for not reporting being assaulted by one of the most powerful men in the country to the police and instead of hoping her employers would help her. Classic gaslighting.
What did she expect her employers to do? I don't know who the bloke is, but I read one report which said that she had been 'in a relationship' with him so that doesn't make it as black and white as it seems at first. No employer is going to take action against what could be described as 'a domestic' and not in the workplace itself, and it seems that she first spoke to another MP who then approached the Chief Whip, it seems that she didn't complain herself so it poses the question, why didn't she approach the Chief Whip herself.
I expect them to tell her to inform the police, not cover it up. I've never been sexually assaulted so I've no idea how easy it is to tell people what's happened.

birdie
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Re: Ex Tory Minister

Post by birdie »

Vespa wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:08 pm
birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:04 pm
Vespa wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:16 pm
birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:26 pm As, I'm willing to bet, would any other Party, don't tell me you believe that the other party's would have called plod straight away.
Sadly I think they would try and cover it up as well. However, that doesn't excuse the Tory party, whose government policy is sexual assault victims should report the crimes to the police ASAP, tried to cover it up.

It's interesting to see suggestions that the alleged victim is somehow in the wrong for not reporting being assaulted by one of the most powerful men in the country to the police and instead of hoping her employers would help her. Classic gaslighting.
What did she expect her employers to do? I don't know who the bloke is, but I read one report which said that she had been 'in a relationship' with him so that doesn't make it as black and white as it seems at first. No employer is going to take action against what could be described as 'a domestic' and not in the workplace itself, and it seems that she first spoke to another MP who then approached the Chief Whip, it seems that she didn't complain herself so it poses the question, why didn't she approach the Chief Whip herself.
I expect them to tell her to inform the police, not cover it up. I've never been sexually assaulted so I've no idea how easy it is to tell people what's happened.
So who was it who told the police?
It isn't the the Tory Party hierarchy's responsibility to inform the police about an assault, it's the person assaulted who has to do the complaining, it's the same as if you gave your significant other a black eye, they complained about it to your neighbour who then contacts your employer demanding you be sacked.
What did she expect the Chief Whip to do? If she wanted him charged with assault it's no use going to the Chief Whip, she should have complained to the police which it seems she didn't do even after being assaulted several times, instead she complained to a third party who then went to a fourth party and now a fifth party is being very loud about removing the Whip, but I don't recall that fifth party being so loud when a list of over 40 members of her own party seemingly doing more or less the same was given to that party's leader and nothing seemed to happen, that lot didn't have the Whip removed.
If the London Borough of Barnet isn't in London where is it?

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Vespa
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Re: Ex Tory Minister

Post by Vespa »

birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:25 pm
Vespa wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:08 pm
birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:04 pm
Vespa wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:16 pm
birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:26 pm As, I'm willing to bet, would any other Party, don't tell me you believe that the other party's would have called plod straight away.
Sadly I think they would try and cover it up as well. However, that doesn't excuse the Tory party, whose government policy is sexual assault victims should report the crimes to the police ASAP, tried to cover it up.

It's interesting to see suggestions that the alleged victim is somehow in the wrong for not reporting being assaulted by one of the most powerful men in the country to the police and instead of hoping her employers would help her. Classic gaslighting.
What did she expect her employers to do? I don't know who the bloke is, but I read one report which said that she had been 'in a relationship' with him so that doesn't make it as black and white as it seems at first. No employer is going to take action against what could be described as 'a domestic' and not in the workplace itself, and it seems that she first spoke to another MP who then approached the Chief Whip, it seems that she didn't complain herself so it poses the question, why didn't she approach the Chief Whip herself.
I expect them to tell her to inform the police, not cover it up. I've never been sexually assaulted so I've no idea how easy it is to tell people what's happened.
So who was it who told the police?
It isn't the the Tory Party hierarchy's responsibility to inform the police about an assault, it's the person assaulted who has to do the complaining, it's the same as if you gave your significant other a black eye, they complained about it to your neighbour who then contacts your employer demanding you be sacked.
What did she expect the Chief Whip to do? If she wanted him charged with assault it's no use going to the Chief Whip, she should have complained to the police which it seems she didn't do even after being assaulted several times, instead she complained to a third party who then went to a fourth party and now a fifth party is being very loud about removing the Whip, but I don't recall that fifth party being so loud when a list of over 40 members of her own party seemingly doing more or less the same was given to that party's leader and nothing seemed to happen, that lot didn't have the Whip removed.
You're right, the Tory party are blameless, knowing a sexual assault had happened they were right in keeping quiet and hoping it would go away at the same time letting the victim remain in a situation that hospitalised her.

It's her fault for letting the assault happen and then being reluctant to report it. Because victims of sexual assault are well known for rushing to the police to report their rape.

Tory party were unable to help her in any way whatsoever.After all, they are only the government.

birdie
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Re: Ex Tory Minister

Post by birdie »

Vespa wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:37 pm
birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:25 pm
Vespa wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:08 pm
birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:04 pm
Vespa wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:16 pm
birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:26 pm As, I'm willing to bet, would any other Party, don't tell me you believe that the other party's would have called plod straight away.
Sadly I think they would try and cover it up as well. However, that doesn't excuse the Tory party, whose government policy is sexual assault victims should report the crimes to the police ASAP, tried to cover it up.

It's interesting to see suggestions that the alleged victim is somehow in the wrong for not reporting being assaulted by one of the most powerful men in the country to the police and instead of hoping her employers would help her. Classic gaslighting.
What did she expect her employers to do? I don't know who the bloke is, but I read one report which said that she had been 'in a relationship' with him so that doesn't make it as black and white as it seems at first. No employer is going to take action against what could be described as 'a domestic' and not in the workplace itself, and it seems that she first spoke to another MP who then approached the Chief Whip, it seems that she didn't complain herself so it poses the question, why didn't she approach the Chief Whip herself.
I expect them to tell her to inform the police, not cover it up. I've never been sexually assaulted so I've no idea how easy it is to tell people what's happened.
So who was it who told the police?
It isn't the the Tory Party hierarchy's responsibility to inform the police about an assault, it's the person assaulted who has to do the complaining, it's the same as if you gave your significant other a black eye, they complained about it to your neighbour who then contacts your employer demanding you be sacked.
What did she expect the Chief Whip to do? If she wanted him charged with assault it's no use going to the Chief Whip, she should have complained to the police which it seems she didn't do even after being assaulted several times, instead she complained to a third party who then went to a fourth party and now a fifth party is being very loud about removing the Whip, but I don't recall that fifth party being so loud when a list of over 40 members of her own party seemingly doing more or less the same was given to that party's leader and nothing seemed to happen, that lot didn't have the Whip removed.
You're right, the Tory party are blameless, knowing a sexual assault had happened they were right in keeping quiet and hoping it would go away at the same time letting the victim remain in a situation that hospitalised her.

It's her fault for letting the assault happen and then being reluctant to report it. Because victims of sexual assault are well known for rushing to the police to report their rape.

Tory party were unable to help her in any way whatsoever.After all, they are only the government.
Yes, they are the government, not the police, they have no power to charge him or arrest him, if the person assaulted doesn't complain to the police there is sod all they can do, and even if someone in government went to the police the victim still has to complain, but you still haven't answered the question, who went to the police, eventually.

What, exactly, should the government have done to help her, and what was it she wanted help with?
If the London Borough of Barnet isn't in London where is it?

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Vespa
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Re: Ex Tory Minister

Post by Vespa »

birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:58 pm
Vespa wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:37 pm
birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:25 pm
Vespa wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:08 pm
birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:04 pm
Vespa wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:16 pm
birdie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:26 pm As, I'm willing to bet, would any other Party, don't tell me you believe that the other party's would have called plod straight away.
Sadly I think they would try and cover it up as well. However, that doesn't excuse the Tory party, whose government policy is sexual assault victims should report the crimes to the police ASAP, tried to cover it up.

It's interesting to see suggestions that the alleged victim is somehow in the wrong for not reporting being assaulted by one of the most powerful men in the country to the police and instead of hoping her employers would help her. Classic gaslighting.
What did she expect her employers to do? I don't know who the bloke is, but I read one report which said that she had been 'in a relationship' with him so that doesn't make it as black and white as it seems at first. No employer is going to take action against what could be described as 'a domestic' and not in the workplace itself, and it seems that she first spoke to another MP who then approached the Chief Whip, it seems that she didn't complain herself so it poses the question, why didn't she approach the Chief Whip herself.
I expect them to tell her to inform the police, not cover it up. I've never been sexually assaulted so I've no idea how easy it is to tell people what's happened.
So who was it who told the police?
It isn't the the Tory Party hierarchy's responsibility to inform the police about an assault, it's the person assaulted who has to do the complaining, it's the same as if you gave your significant other a black eye, they complained about it to your neighbour who then contacts your employer demanding you be sacked.
What did she expect the Chief Whip to do? If she wanted him charged with assault it's no use going to the Chief Whip, she should have complained to the police which it seems she didn't do even after being assaulted several times, instead she complained to a third party who then went to a fourth party and now a fifth party is being very loud about removing the Whip, but I don't recall that fifth party being so loud when a list of over 40 members of her own party seemingly doing more or less the same was given to that party's leader and nothing seemed to happen, that lot didn't have the Whip removed.
You're right, the Tory party are blameless, knowing a sexual assault had happened they were right in keeping quiet and hoping it would go away at the same time letting the victim remain in a situation that hospitalised her.

It's her fault for letting the assault happen and then being reluctant to report it. Because victims of sexual assault are well known for rushing to the police to report their rape.

Tory party were unable to help her in any way whatsoever.After all, they are only the government.
Yes, they are the government, not the police, they have no power to charge him or arrest him, if the person assaulted doesn't complain to the police there is sod all they can do, and even if someone in government went to the police the victim still has to complain, but you still haven't answered the question, who went to the police, eventually.

What, exactly, should the government have done to help her, and what was it she wanted help with?
I'm agreeing with you, they should have done nothing. One of there employees alleged they were sexually assaulted they did exactly the right thing, hushed it up.

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black_guardian
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Re: Ex Tory Minister

Post by black_guardian »

Anyone else noticed how Mark François had stopped attending parliament and was no longer chair of the ERG just as a Tory MP was bailed on a rape charge?!

Surely this can't be a coincidence as I was fully expecting Mr François to be lending his voluminous tones to the Brexit deal debate in the closing stages.
<Doctor...you will die for this...!>

Petingo
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Re: Ex Tory Minister

Post by Petingo »

black_guardian wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:21 pm Anyone else noticed how Mark François had stopped attending parliament and was no longer chair of the ERG just as a Tory MP was bailed on a rape charge?!

Surely this can't be a coincidence as I was fully expecting Mr François to be lending his voluminous tones to the Brexit deal debate in the closing stages.

I have seen more than several references to the wee bugger’s lower than normal profile this past few months.
Alex Young, Howard Kendall, Andy King, Timmy Cahill, Dixie Dean and Mike Parry.....we'll never see the likes of them again.

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