Euro 24 Qualifying

[antdad]

Sums up England yesterday. Failure.

Reported for trolling.

[Zambo]

Meant to win.

The style of play does my head in though.

Check out when we are in possession making sideways and backward passes, players in opponents half are either standing still or walking. That happens a lot and means the passing in our own half has to continue.

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

If southpiss had not totally shat the bed and actually won something, it would have revitalised this nation. We'd have shut the fuck up about brexit blah and moved into a new era of can-do optimism. Instead we are resigned to grey Greggs barely conscious desperation, shuffling around crying and stabbing each other

[antdad]

Jeez, all this investiture in a fairly meaningless group game.

I wouldn't overly fret, it's about as near to a dead rubber for England as you can get and it sounded like they played like it.

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

They played that like they play all the others, even finals THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT

[Sadact7]

Acceptance of failure, and more so to try and make it sound like a great performance, is why we get what we deserve, nothing.

England have won about as much as Birmingham City have. You wouldn’t expect this sort of reaction if they drew would you?

I’ve read some false equivalences on here but that is one of the best.

Comparing England’s ambitions as an international side with those of Birmingham City as part of the club football scene is completely incongruous.

As is the idea that any negative reaction to the result is in relation to this game in isolation. It’s based on the patterns which have been demonstrated over the course of six years of Southgate.

He’ll always do reasonably well in tournaments because he plays with a safety first mentality, with keeping the opponent’s score at zero as the primary objective. That’s not unreasonable in itself, good defences help win tournaments, limiting the opponents score reduces the number of goals you need to win yourself.

The problem is, in any tournament, eventually you’ll need to switch gears and seek to press your advantage and aggressively go after the opposition. He regularly fails to do that, which then puts an element of doubt into his own players while allowing the opposition to rebuild their own confidence and take the initiative.

Colombia WC 2018 - At 1-0 England drop deeper and deeper, either through his instruction or his unwillingness to address it. Colombia score a last minute equaliser, the game goes to penalties and England get out of jail.

Croatia WC 2018 - England start brightly, take an early lead and immediately begin to surrender possession to Croatia. At the point where Croatia inevitably equalise England find themselves stuck in a defensive frame of mind and are unable to wrest away control of the game. Croatia score a second, England are eliminated.

Italy Euro 2021 - England start fast, take an early lead and continue to dominate a clearly rattled Italian side. England come out after half time and are suddenly playing 5-10 yards deeper than at any point in the first half. The fullbacks who had been so vital to England’s attacking play stop making the overlapping runs and the Italians slowly take control of the game. England never recover attacking impetus, Italy in on penalties.

France World Cup 2022 - A very beatable French side take the lead through a long range strike caused by England habitually backing off from the midfield press. They slowly get back into the game and equalise via a penalty. At that point, rather than continuing to take the game to a tired looking French side, they immediately cede the initiative back to France. Again dropping deeper and deeper until Olivier Giroud is able to score the winner from a deep delivery into the box. England are eliminated.

England have a group of attacking players who should be the envy of the world. But the pattern persists, in big games when the opportunity to allow those players to impose themselves on the opposition, time and time again Southgate demonstrates a lack of trust in his team. And giving out a few stylish pastings to the odd team of international cannon fodder doesn’t disguise that.

[JudgeTedd]

Bring back Big Sam. He’s got a 100% record you know.

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

Big Sam = pint of wine
Little Gareth = pint of semen

[antdad]

Some fair points well made S7, just one problem though...you're forgetting the effect of the grand EPL deception. That is we've been told that the EPL is the biggest, brightest and best which it is but it's enabled by mostly foreign coaches and players and that just doesn't translate to the England national team being the most capable against the very best.

Sure Southgate has deficencies and England have some very good players especially in attack but not many are truely world class in the more essential positions...GK, CB(s) CM (regista) although the likes of Bellingham and Foden might develop on to be, the senior team/squad is still paper thin in that regard.

Why do you think he still fishes about with the likes of Maguire? Guéhi is a kid with a few caps and there's nobody else out there with his experience 'cept Mings and Stones who are injured. Mings who could also be a liabilty and Stones a converted midfielder.

Who did Italy have in central defence for the Euro final, two warriors of a 100 caps each and now look what's happened to Italy since they retired. Who did Croatia have in midfield? It's almost always about the players rarely the coach but he's always the first to blame.

[Carlos J]

[...]
He’ll always do reasonably well in tournaments because he plays with a safety first mentality, with keeping the opponent’s score at zero as the primary objective. That’s not unreasonable in itself, good defences help win tournaments, limiting the opponents score reduces the number of goals you need to win yourself.

The problem is, in any tournament, eventually you’ll need to switch gears and seek to press your advantage and aggressively go after the opposition. He regularly fails to do that, which then puts an element of doubt into his own players while allowing the opposition to rebuild their own confidence and take the initiative.
[...]

For as long as I can remember, England have had this problem in tournaments/competitive games.

Sitting back when leading and not going for the kill allowing the opposition time to regroup and rebuild.

Of course there have been exceptions but it seems less a Southgate problem as an England one.

[subsub]

[...]
He’ll always do reasonably well in tournaments because he plays with a safety first mentality, with keeping the opponent’s score at zero as the primary objective. That’s not unreasonable in itself, good defences help win tournaments, limiting the opponents score reduces the number of goals you need to win yourself.

The problem is, in any tournament, eventually you’ll need to switch gears and seek to press your advantage and aggressively go after the opposition. He regularly fails to do that, which then puts an element of doubt into his own players while allowing the opposition to rebuild their own confidence and take the initiative.
[...]

For as long as I can remember, England have had this problem in tournaments/competitive games.

Sitting back when leading and not going for the kill allowing the opposition time to regroup and rebuild.

Of course there have been exceptions but it seems less a Southgate problem as an England one.

Having watched umpteen tournaments over the years, singling out Southgate for being a touch nervy/unadventurous is just laughable.
He's overachieved as an England manager. Don't remember seeing post after post about England's 'golden generation' and how the World Cup/Euros were in the bag etc

[delboy1983]

Support the Scots,they are better to watch !

[JW90]

And be like Jim White and Rod Stewart?

No thanks.

[Sadact7]

Sympathy for timid failures, what a fucking forum.

[subsub]

Outrage every time England don't win a tournament = blinkered arrogance