John Bercow

[Zambo]

It's quite frightening how close this arrogant arsehole along with Labour MP's and of course the BBC came to de-railing democracy .

Bye bye Bercow

[Sunbeam Alpine]

Oh dear
Mentioning democracy wasn't a good idea.
None of us like him, including me, but for two years he fought to preserve it, not destroy it.
As the Supreme Court ruled, a referendum does not outdo the supremacy of Parliament in OUR CONSTITUTION.
The people trying to do down democracy, to the extent of illegally closing Parliament, was Johnson and co.
Parliament passed the legislation to enact withdrawal in 2017. We then witnessed the spectacle of those who pushed for withdrawal constantly fighting about what to do next. BECAUSE THE REFERENDUM HAD NOT SPECIFIED what to do next.
As you see even now.

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

Don't have a Bercow, Hillman

[Steve Hunt]

Oh dear
Mentioning democracy wasn't a good idea.
None of us like him, including me, but for two years he fought to preserve it, not destroy it.
As the Supreme Court ruled, a referendum does not outdo the supremacy of Parliament in OUR CONSTITUTION.
The people trying to do down democracy, to the extent of illegally closing Parliament, was Johnson and co.
Parliament passed the legislation to enact withdrawal in 2017. We then witnessed the spectacle of those who pushed for withdrawal constantly fighting about what to do next. BECAUSE THE REFERENDUM HAD NOT SPECIFIED what to do next.
As you see even now.

I could not disagree with you more, Hillman.

But that's ok, we've never agreed on this.

But, what I do find strange is even now you make no mention, let alone condemnation of his conduct.

This is a man found to be a bully, liar & mysoginist.

[Sid Pervcat]

Him and his Missus are seriously fucking horrible human beings.

[Salem]

Oh dear
Mentioning democracy wasn't a good idea.
None of us like him, including me, but for two years he fought to preserve it, not destroy it.
As the Supreme Court ruled, a referendum does not outdo the supremacy of Parliament in OUR CONSTITUTION.
The people trying to do down democracy, to the extent of illegally closing Parliament, was Johnson and co.
Parliament passed the legislation to enact withdrawal in 2017. We then witnessed the spectacle of those who pushed for withdrawal constantly fighting about what to do next. BECAUSE THE REFERENDUM HAD NOT SPECIFIED what to do next.
As you see even now.

Aww bless ya , you still relying on semantics Hillman ?

Your bloke has got what he deserves . All the ridicule coming his way , he's earned every single bit of it as do those who still stick up for him .

He was a useful idiot to the remain majority commons and used his position to stack the deck in their favour . Even a former deputy leader of the Labour party cited that Bercow should stay in his position because stopping Brexit trumps bad behaviour . Shithouse of a man , shithouse of an opposition .

But i'm saying nothing that I and a few others haven't said hundreds of times in the Brexit thread . Democracy won the day , your lot lost . Deal with it xx

[Sunbeam Alpine]

I said I didn't like him but as speaker he stood up for democracy.

You clearly don't get how our constitution works. If referendums were a valid method we would have had more than 3 in 46 years. Even then, the House, despite its Remain majority ( as elected in 2017)passed the withdrawal bill. Which is what the referendum required,
But the referendum did not specify what type of exit or new relationship. It fought for what democracy requires, which is debate on those issues.

Johnson swept aside democracy and forced a deal through without scrutiny. Even his own scrutiny! That''s why we have the shambles we have now and NI regressing 30 years.

[birdie]

Speaking of referenda, the first referendum on this was whether the UK should join the COMMON MARKET, I didn't have a vote then but the question was should the UK join a trading bloc which, we were told, would harmonise tariffs across the membership allowing easier movement of goods between member countries, so business was for it and it made travel to those countries easier,.
No one, as far as I recall, realised that we were joining a United States of Europe whose laws would overtake ours and we would be subject to EU laws over our own.
It my opinion only, of course, that we fed a lie by Heath, who later admitted that had he told the country that it would, eventually, be part of a United States of Europe people wouldn't have voted for it.
I also don't recall a great level of protest at the referendum result, but, of course, to quote someone else in high office, memories can vary.

[Steve Hunt]

You are entirely correct, birdie.

But we've been here a thousand times before. I could pick a million holes in Hillman's post and Bercow's abuses (imo) of the democratic process.

But what's the point?

I've come to the conclusion that remainers and brexiteers are simply never going to agree on anything Brexit related. Never. And that's fine. I respect the remain point of view, I always have. I don't agree with it, but I like to think I understand the rationale behind it.

At the end of the day we've left the EU. It's done.

Brexit has been distorted by two years of pandemic, a government that isn't really committed to it and now a European war. Best thing we can all do is work to make a success of it.

I believe in the long run (once all this shit is over) history will look back on the vote and leaving the EU kindly.

But that's only my opinion. Hillman, Tick & Co think differently. And on this we will never find a consensus. So these days I really cannot be bothered to even try.

[birdie]

The way he treated Black Rod over the prorogation was a disgrace, it was two fingers to Her Maj, who, let us not forget, agreed to the prorogation, and if anyone knows how prorogation works better than any MP or Attorney General she does.

[Sunbeam Alpine]

The way he treated Black Rod over the prorogation was a disgrace, it was two fingers to Her Maj, who, let us not forget, agreed to the prorogation, and if anyone knows how prorogation works better than any MP or Attorney General she does.

But for the small detail that she was lied to about the reason.

And it had never happened before during her reign.

[birdie]

The way he treated Black Rod over the prorogation was a disgrace, it was two fingers to Her Maj, who, let us not forget, agreed to the prorogation, and if anyone knows how prorogation works better than any MP or Attorney General she does.

But for the small detail that she was lied to about the reason.

And it had never happened before during her reign.

Do toy really think that Her Maj doesn't know what is and is not the correct procedure for prorogation? She knows more about how the constitution works than anyone else, she also advises the PM and if she thought it wasn't correct pr unlawful she would have said so.

Mind you, she isn't above accepting wrong legal advice when it suits, as when Charlie Falkener ruled that Prince Charles' civil marriage was lawful when under the Royal Marriages Act anyone in direct line to the Accession must, by law, be married within the CofE, and who nearer the Throne than Charles.

[Steve Hunt]

Londoner's around Westminster this morning searching for the remnants of John Bercow's reputation:

[The Ghost of Alex Higgins]

Don't have a Bercow, Hillman

Y'all just gonna leave that hanging there? Shame on you.

[Sunbeam Alpine]

The way he treated Black Rod over the prorogation was a disgrace, it was two fingers to Her Maj, who, let us not forget, agreed to the prorogation, and if anyone knows how prorogation works better than any MP or Attorney General she does.

But for the small detail that she was lied to about the reason.

And it had never happened before during her reign.

Do toy really think that Her Maj doesn't know what is and is not the correct procedure for prorogation? She knows more about how the constitution works than anyone else, she also advises the PM and if she thought it wasn't correct pr unlawful she would have said so.

Mind you, she isn't above accepting wrong legal advice when it suits, as when Charlie Falkener ruled that Prince Charles' civil marriage was lawful when under the Royal Marriages Act anyone in direct line to the Accession must, by law, be married within the CofE, and who nearer the Throne than Charles.

The Queen largely does what she is asked. I can't think of a time when she hasn't.
As regards the Constitution, why on earth should she be an expert on that?
She had never been asked to prorogue Parliament before, and that time she was asked to do it based on a lie, that the government needed to deliver a new Queen's speech.
That it was a lie was implicitly admitted by the government's lawyers submitting no evidence to the Supreme Court, which quite rightly said that trying to suspend debate was not a legitimate reason.
So then Johnon tried the ruse of pushing for an election and reconfiguring his party to eliminate informed challenge. Then after lying about having a deal ( amongst other things) prevented discussion of the deal by dissolving the scrutiny committee.
Turned out to be a crap deal which has greatly harmed our economy and done immense damage in NI. A deal which he didn't even understand...repeated twice no border in the Irish Sea...and over a year later suddenly realised he had taken us out of the customs union.
This government has pissed all over our democracy . Bercow's impact was minor.