John Bercow

[Vespa]

Johnson swept aside democracy and forced a deal through without scrutiny. Even his own scrutiny! That''s why we have the shambles we have now and NI regressing 30 years.

What are you on about, Parliament passed a bill via a vote that included the withdrawal agreement. Are you suggesting Parliament voting on a bill is 'sweeping aside democracy''?

There is nothing undemocratic about Brexit.

1. The country had a referendum that expressed the desire to leave the EU.
2. The country then elected a goverment that agreed to act on that expression.

I'll happily argue the people implementing Brexit have done a fucking awful job of it and in the process are wrecking parts of the UK economy, but I'll never argue that Parliament passing a bill by a vote to achieve the expression a referendum is undemocratic - because that would be dumb.

[Vespa]

She had never been asked to prorogue Parliament before[..]

She's been asked at least 70 times.

Are you drinking?

[Zambo]

Johnson swept aside democracy and forced a deal through without scrutiny. Even his own scrutiny! That''s why we have the shambles we have now and NI regressing 30 years.

What are you on about, Parliament passed a bill via a vote that included the withdrawal agreement. Are you suggesting Parliament voting on a bill is 'sweeping aside democracy''?

There is nothing undemocratic about Brexit.

1. The country had a referendum that expressed the desire to leave the EU.
2. The country then elected a goverment that agreed to act on that expression.

I'll happily argue the people implementing Brexit have done a fucking awful job of it and in the process are wrecking parts of the UK economy, but I'll never argue that Parliament passing a bill by a vote to achieve the expression a referendum is undemocratic - because that would be dumb.

If we had a thread which contained the most spot on posts, then this would be out on it's own. Succinctly put Vespa

[Sunbeam Alpine]

Johnson swept aside democracy and forced a deal through without scrutiny. Even his own scrutiny! That''s why we have the shambles we have now and NI regressing 30 years.

What are you on about, Parliament passed a bill via a vote that included the withdrawal agreement. Are you suggesting Parliament voting on a bill is 'sweeping aside democracy''?

There is nothing undemocratic about Brexit.

1. The country had a referendum that expressed the desire to leave the EU.
2. The country then elected a goverment that agreed to act on that expression.

I'll happily argue the people implementing Brexit have done a fucking awful job of it and in the process are wrecking parts of the UK economy, but I'll never argue that Parliament passing a bill by a vote to achieve the expression a referendum is undemocratic - because that would be dumb.

No I didn't say that.
What the people did not state, which was the great flaw, was what kind of future they wanted.
Parliament DID pass a vote to withdraw, in 2017. Even though the majority of MPs did not want it ( and had been elected by their constituents knowing that).
The 2 years following were consumed in the Tory party arguing about HOW it was to be achieved, and as had been apparent during the 2016 campaign, there were serious differences about that. It cost May her job, got us a cretin as PM, and landed us with a dogs breakfast of an arrangement which is crippling our economy and sending NI back 30 years. Along the way Johnson tried to sweep aside democracy to bludgeon it through; the most important issue before Parliament for fifty years and he scrapped the scrutiny of it.
And since then has been whittling away at the pillars of our democracy.
And if you hadn't noticed we have a PM and Home Secretary who on multiple occasions have lied to the House, and a Speaker who has done nothing about it.

[Sunbeam Alpine]

She had never been asked to prorogue Parliament before[..]

She's been asked at least 70 times.

Are you drinking?

Name one that was not to dissolve the House for an election, or because of Covid.

[Vespa]

She had never been asked to prorogue Parliament before[..]

She's been asked at least 70 times.

Are you drinking?

Name one that was not to dissolve the House for an election, or because of Covid.

John Major March 1997.

[birdie]

The way he treated Black Rod over the prorogation was a disgrace, it was two fingers to Her Maj, who, let us not forget, agreed to the prorogation, and if anyone knows how prorogation works better than any MP or Attorney General she does.

But for the small detail that she was lied to about the reason.

And it had never happened before during her reign.

Do toy really think that Her Maj doesn't know what is and is not the correct procedure for prorogation? She knows more about how the constitution works than anyone else, she also advises the PM and if she thought it wasn't correct pr unlawful she would have said so.

Mind you, she isn't above accepting wrong legal advice when it suits, as when Charlie Falkener ruled that Prince Charles' civil marriage was lawful when under the Royal Marriages Act anyone in direct line to the Accession must, by law, be married within the CofE, and who nearer the Throne than Charles.

The Queen largely does what she is asked. I can't think of a time when she hasn't.
As regards the Constitution, why on earth should she be an expert on that?
She had never been asked to prorogue Parliament before, and that time she was asked to do it based on a lie, that the government needed to deliver a new Queen's speech.
That it was a lie was implicitly admitted by the government's lawyers submitting no evidence to the Supreme Court, which quite rightly said that trying to suspend debate was not a legitimate reason.
So then Johnon tried the ruse of pushing for an election and reconfiguring his party to eliminate informed challenge. Then after lying about having a deal ( amongst other things) prevented discussion of the deal by dissolving the scrutiny committee.
Turned out to be a crap deal which has greatly harmed our economy and done immense damage in NI. A deal which he didn't even understand...repeated twice no border in the Irish Sea...and over a year later suddenly realised he had taken us out of the customs union.
This government has pissed all over our democracy . Bercow's impact was minor.

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!



You do know how prorogation works, don't you?
Well, I guess not otherwise you wouldn't have made such a daft statement.

[Sunbeam Alpine]

Yes I understand how it works
Probably better than you.
Give mean example in the last 30 years where Parliament has been prorogued other than for routine, end-of-term and elections.
It was an extraordinary thing to do and a betrayal of our democracy, on the pretext of having a new Queen's Speech. As the Supreme Court judged.

[Salem]

Yes I understand how it works
Probably better than you.
Give mean example in the last 30 years where Parliament has been prorogued other than for routine, end-of-term and elections.
It was an extraordinary thing to do and a betrayal of our democracy, on the pretext of having a new Queen's Speech. As the Supreme Court judged.

[Sunbeam Alpine]

Yes I understand how it works
Probably better than you.
Give mean example in the last 30 years where Parliament has been prorogued other than for routine, end-of-term and elections.
It was an extraordinary thing to do and a betrayal of our democracy, on the pretext of having a new Queen's Speech. As the Supreme Court judged.

Gosh that's funny
Let's try this a different way.
Why do you think the Supreme Court told them to reverse it? And why do you think the government's lawyers offered no defence?

[Sunbeam Alpine]

She had never been asked to prorogue Parliament before[..]

She's been asked at least 70 times.

Are you drinking?

Name one that was not to dissolve the House for an election, or because of Covid.

John Major March 1997.

That's an interesting example.
Like Johnson he did not want that awful thing called democracy meaning his MPs would be put on the spot about cash for questions.
You kind of prove the point.
Two differences. Parliament was close to the end of its term anyway. And it wasn't contested like the 2019 example was.
Cash for questions was bad, and a forerunner of the big-time corruption the Tories are in now, but in terms of significance for the nation for decades to come, nowhere comparable to trying to trying to evade scrutiny of something as profound as our future after Brexit.

[Salem]

Gosh that's funny
Let's try this a different way.
Why do you think the Supreme Court told them to reverse it? And why do you think the government's lawyers offered no defence?

Thought you'd like it .

[Sunbeam Alpine]

Yes I understand how it works
Probably better than you.
Give mean example in the last 30 years where Parliament has been prorogued other than for routine, end-of-term and elections.
It was an extraordinary thing to do and a betrayal of our democracy, on the pretext of having a new Queen's Speech. As the Supreme Court judged.

Gosh that's funny
Let's try this a different way.
Why do you think the Supreme Court told them to reverse it? And why do you think the government's lawyers offered no defence?

[birdie]

Yes I understand how it works
Probably better than you.
Give mean example in the last 30 years where Parliament has been prorogued other than for routine, end-of-term and elections.
It was an extraordinary thing to do and a betrayal of our democracy, on the pretext of having a new Queen's Speech. As the Supreme Court judged.

As your post is directly after mine I am assuming that it is replying to mine, if so, please don't patronise me, your words were, 'She had never been asked to prorogue Parliament before, ' with a comma which, I think, makes it a statement, in which case it is totally incorrect.

I am, of course, happy to be corrected as to grammar of whatever , but to my mind what you posted clearly states, 'she has never been asked to prorogue Parliament before,'. which is, I think totally wrong. as, obviously, Her Maj prorogues Parliament on a regular basis.

[Salem]

Yes I understand how it works
Probably better than you.
Give mean example in the last 30 years where Parliament has been prorogued other than for routine, end-of-term and elections.
It was an extraordinary thing to do and a betrayal of our democracy, on the pretext of having a new Queen's Speech. As the Supreme Court judged.

Gosh that's funny
Let's try this a different way.
Why do you think the Supreme Court told them to reverse it? And why do you think the government's lawyers offered no defence?

As I can't hope to come close to your vastly superior knowledge , i'm going out on a limb here but maybe it's because they (the Government) shouldn't have done it in the first place

But as i've said , it's all semantics and technicalities as proved by the results of the 2019 election where democracy finally overcame . And Bercow is still a cunt and this is his thread . Brexit thread .