Now officially more entertaining than Talksport.
https://talkforum.co.uk/
Yep, and making us chew on anemic BLT sandwiches and drinking coffee that tastes like piss water for the privilege: "That's ten pounds and fifty pence, please."
lambrini wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:09 pmIf public ownership works, why did ours fail? British Rail controlled the services for decades. Now, unbelievably, the British Rail industry's expenditure is currently over twenty-five billion pounds. And for what? I can't see any improvements or decent service, can you?
Our railways were grossly under-invested from WW2 onwards. While other countries were electrifying main routes and suburban services, we were going for the cheaper diesel and diesel-electric solutions.lambrini wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:09 pmIf public ownership works, why did ours fail? British Rail controlled the services for decades. Now, unbelievably, the British Rail industry's expenditure is currently over twenty-five billion pounds. And for what? I can't see any improvements or decent service, can you?
The regulation is shit and not fit for purpose. Railways, water, electricty ... all of it. It's not regulated correctly, that's part of the bloody problem.Sunbeam Alpine wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:21 pmOur railways were grossly under-invested from WW2 onwards. While other countries were electrifying main routes and suburban services, we were going for the cheaper diesel and diesel-electric solutions.lambrini wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:09 pmIf public ownership works, why did ours fail? British Rail controlled the services for decades. Now, unbelievably, the British Rail industry's expenditure is currently over twenty-five billion pounds. And for what? I can't see any improvements or decent service, can you?
In fact on some services the infamous "Pacer" trains were used which were converted from lorry and bus products.
Rather than bite the bullet and invest we diverted attention by trotting out the old line that private industry would do so.
And essentially, it hasn't. To be fair, the length of franchises deterred operators from investing in rolling stock. So they simply repainted old stuff and kept it going. The most profitable operator is Porterbrook/Angel Trains which spotted that operators wouldn't buy new kit, so they snapped up a lot of stuff and lease it to them now.
The idea was , as ever, that competition would drive innovation and keen pricing. But in fact there is true competition on under 10% of services in this country. They were given, in many cases, monopolies.
Where I used to live, near Oxford, the Chiltern line provides effectively the only way for commuters into London. It was the last line BR spent any money on, getting new stock and signalling. Its management team was funded to buy it at such a low price they were able to sell it again in a few years and each become millionaires. I understand it is now calculated that you'd have to earn just over £6k pretax to afford a season ticket.
The other consequence was fragmentation. Under BR you could buy cross-country tickets without having to wade through different train operators. Now, at least, organisations like Trainline have got a grip of that .
It's interesting that none of our European peer countries privatised their systems, and by and large have far better systems offering much better value to customers.
I think Labour would like to renationalise but it's wary of the cost.
Think of how much moolah you could make if you didn’t improve on the nationalisation era, charge people more and then decided to cut corners to save a few extra quid?
Exactly. Services, from the NHS, to British Gas to the railways, are bureaucratic and sluggish. Another issue is that over the last couple of decades, we (as in the British) have become frightfully accustomed to indifference. Heads buried in their devices, more and more people appear apathetic about the societal problems growing around them, including inefficient services, filthy and dimly lit streets and rat-infested parks. It’s truly bizarre. Similarly, people seem nonchalant about international affairs unless they directly benefit – virtue signalling on social media or holding up twee placards in Trafalgar Square, for example.carcinogen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:38 pmThe regulation is shit and not fit for purpose. Railways, water, electricty ... all of it. It's not regulated correctly, that's part of the bloody problem.Sunbeam Alpine wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:21 pmOur railways were grossly under-invested from WW2 onwards. While other countries were electrifying main routes and suburban services, we were going for the cheaper diesel and diesel-electric solutions.lambrini wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:09 pmIf public ownership works, why did ours fail? British Rail controlled the services for decades. Now, unbelievably, the British Rail industry's expenditure is currently over twenty-five billion pounds. And for what? I can't see any improvements or decent service, can you?
In fact on some services the infamous "Pacer" trains were used which were converted from lorry and bus products.
Rather than bite the bullet and invest we diverted attention by trotting out the old line that private industry would do so.
And essentially, it hasn't. To be fair, the length of franchises deterred operators from investing in rolling stock. So they simply repainted old stuff and kept it going. The most profitable operator is Porterbrook/Angel Trains which spotted that operators wouldn't buy new kit, so they snapped up a lot of stuff and lease it to them now.
The idea was , as ever, that competition would drive innovation and keen pricing. But in fact there is true competition on under 10% of services in this country. They were given, in many cases, monopolies.
Where I used to live, near Oxford, the Chiltern line provides effectively the only way for commuters into London. It was the last line BR spent any money on, getting new stock and signalling. Its management team was funded to buy it at such a low price they were able to sell it again in a few years and each become millionaires. I understand it is now calculated that you'd have to earn just over £6k pretax to afford a season ticket.
The other consequence was fragmentation. Under BR you could buy cross-country tickets without having to wade through different train operators. Now, at least, organisations like Trainline have got a grip of that .
It's interesting that none of our European peer countries privatised their systems, and by and large have far better systems offering much better value to customers.
I think Labour would like to renationalise but it's wary of the cost.
So what happened? Why can't we adopt a similar model?VeritasVincit wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:45 pm A bit of salt rubbed into UK wounds.
Last summer, Madrid - Cordoba [nearly 400km] on a high speed train Super clean, all seats bookable and they are normally on time to the minute. So when they were halted by a trackside fire. we got all our fare [€60] refunded.
Those Spanish trains are state owned and they are building more lines.
antdad wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:52 pm I think we should all buy a Union Jack Olympic flag and start felling better about ourselves as a nation, hang on I can't...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/20 ... ontroversy.
lambrini wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:11 pmSo what happened? Why can't we adopt a similar model?VeritasVincit wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:45 pm A bit of salt rubbed into UK wounds.
Last summer, Madrid - Cordoba [nearly 400km] on a high speed train Super clean, all seats bookable and they are normally on time to the minute. So when they were halted by a trackside fire. we got all our fare [€60] refunded.
Those Spanish trains are state owned and they are building more lines.
Yep 'cus the EU would bring abundance of investment into the nation's railways. The magic money tree, yay!antdad wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:31 pm EU funding, cough...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ples-lives
Tick drives a vehicle made of wood fuelled by dead leaves. There's no shortage of leaves yet, so he's fine for at least a thousand years. Apparently, WVs are the next big thing. Jolly good!chelseachelsea wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 9:21 pm I can't see how a car can be so divisive, don't we all drive?
