UK sets new European record for COVID deaths in one day

[Vespa]

As I understand it, you allow the infection to spread so that the majority of people get it but develop immunity. Once you are there it goes into decline because it starts to run out of people to infect.
It's a well-known approach.
For what they thought Covid was they thought that if older and ill people were "shielded" the rest of the population would have it, have a few days of illness, recover and move on.
BUT
1. They had not realised how virulent it was.
2. They had not realised its morbidity rate, even among younger, fitter people,
3. And most importantly, they did not know what % of the population needed to be infected to have achieved the crossover.
1 and 2 became apparent from other countries.
But what is unforgivable is to have chosen it not knowing the answer to 3.

But that's never been a government policy has it? Italy and China had already demonstrated its ability to overwhelm the healthcare system.

The government never had a policy of letting it burn through the population, as far as I can tell Valance used the phrase in the context of normal epidemiology and people made up their own thing.

Matt Hancock has already described the suggestion as nonsense.

[Petingo]

As I understand it, you allow the infection to spread so that the majority of people get it but develop immunity. Once you are there it goes into decline because it starts to run out of people to infect.
It's a well-known approach.
For what they thought Covid was they thought that if older and ill people were "shielded" the rest of the population would have it, have a few days of illness, recover and move on.
BUT
1. They had not realised how virulent it was.
2. They had not realised its morbidity rate, even among younger, fitter people,
3. And most importantly, they did not know what % of the population needed to be infected to have achieved the crossover.
1 and 2 became apparent from other countries.
But what is unforgivable is to have chosen it not knowing the answer to 3.

“herd immunity” as I understand it is that if a disease races through a herd of say, wildebeest or zebra, or infects a troupe of monkeys or a pack of hyenas then the young, the strong and otherwise healthy critters will survive and develop immunity if it strikes again but the sick and the old will perish.

Darwinism, in other words.

When applied to humans it runs against modern mores about caring for the sick and elderly, especially in our own families and that is why the British public recoiled at the notion and forced Johnson into his U turn.

I find it hard to attribute any benign or altruistic motives to the policy, like the elderly and sick being “shielded”, on account of the crackpot we are led to believe dreamed up the scheme, Mr. Dominic Cummings, has had a long time fascination with eugenics and the idea of “culling the herd” sounds like a topic he would have enthused over round the dinner table with his myriad acolytes and sycophants.

“herd immunity” sounds to me like a Bizarro World version of the Birkenhead Drill.

With the sick and elderly cast adrift in the lifeboats whist the ship sails serenely away.

[Hillman avenger]

As I understand it, you allow the infection to spread so that the majority of people get it but develop immunity. Once you are there it goes into decline because it starts to run out of people to infect.
It's a well-known approach.
For what they thought Covid was they thought that if older and ill people were "shielded" the rest of the population would have it, have a few days of illness, recover and move on.
BUT
1. They had not realised how virulent it was.
2. They had not realised its morbidity rate, even among younger, fitter people,
3. And most importantly, they did not know what % of the population needed to be infected to have achieved the crossover.
1 and 2 became apparent from other countries.
But what is unforgivable is to have chosen it not knowing the answer to 3.

“herd immunity” as I understand it is that if a disease races through a herd of say, wildebeest or zebra, or infects a troupe of monkeys or a pack of hyenas then the young, the strong and otherwise healthy critters will survive and develop immunity if it strikes again but the sick and the old will perish.

Darwinism, in other words.

When applied to humans it runs against modern mores about caring for the sick and elderly, especially in our own families and that is why the British public recoiled at the notion and forced Johnson into his U turn.
I'm not sure it was public opinion that did that. At that time I don't think we understood how serious it was, nor what the government policy was. As I understand it, two things caused the change; the first was a prediction that it would lead to 250,000 deaths; and the second a warning from France that it would close its border with us( at that time EU borders were open) because they were shocked at what we were doing.

I find it hard to attribute any benign or altruistic motives to the policy, like the elderly and sick being “shielded”,
Being one of the"elderly" I promise you I heard that message loud and clear.
on account of the crackpot we are led to believe dreamed up the scheme, Mr. Dominic Cummings, has had a long time fascination with eugenics and the idea of “culling the herd” sounds like a topic he would have enthused over round the dinner table with his myriad acolytes and sycophants.
Quite likely. If you recall the dramadoc re the Leave campaign where he was played by Benedict Cumberbatch , running the Leave campaign he showed no interest in verifying the £350m/Turkey/EU army campaign he ran. He liked that it was simple and repetitive and wasn't bothered about whether any of it was true. When Johnson and Gove stepped in they didn't bother either. So he is without any moral dimension .
“herd immunity” sounds to me like a Bizarro World version of the Birkenhead Drill.

With the sick and elderly cast adrift in the lifeboats whist the ship sails serenely away.

[Petingo]

Wouldn’t it be great if English journalists took our government spokespeople to task the way the likes of Ms.Paula Reid from CBS News (the woman owning Trump and rattling him in this clip) or Jim Acosta from CNN are doing in D.C. every day.






I wish they would even let the born again Piers Morgan loose on Hancock, Pritti, Gove, Sunak et al.

[Petingo]

ol’ Piers at it again.

Good on ya, P.....keep the pressure on the bastards.

[Petingo]

[Hillman avenger]

That's one of the characteristics of a good leader.
Having the courage to say " I don't know".
The inability to do that is what leads Johnson and Trump to make stuff up which causes far more problems. I don't know if it's a lack of confidence in themselves or us.
Whereas with Gove it's just habitual.

[Royal24s]

That's one of the characteristics of a good leader.
Having the courage to say " I don't know".
The inability to do that is what leads Johnson and Trump to make stuff up which causes far more problems. I don't know if it's a lack of confidence in themselves or us.
Whereas with Gove it's just habitual.

[Royal24s]

[Hillman avenger]

What is the point of those posts?

Are you arguing that they should claim to know, even when they don't?

I suspect when the virus has gone it's going to have a similar, albeit smaller, effect than after WW2. In that people will not want leaders who will lie, or invent, rather than be honest; who see no disgrace in listening to experts; and who truly relate to the heroes of this country, not shafting them for the benefit of people like Crispin Oddey and Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Just my opinion.

Do you want to post another video?

[Royal24s]

Oh yeah , you've often got to do that Hillman. Can't frighten the horses you know .
If you're the man in charge you've got to carry the weight of what you know yourself and inspire the chaps to carry on.

You speak of afterwards. Well if there's an afterwards in a form we shall recognise we can deal with that when it arises. At the moment the enemy is at the gates and it's no time for wishy washy crap. If you start trying to apply trendy management techniques and theories, people will panic and before you know it you'll have riots and looting.

[Royal24s]

Oh sorry ..you wanted a clip

[shabbado]

ol’ Piers at it again.

Good on ya, P.....keep the pressure on the bastards.

Piers can fuck off.

Didn't he spend the previous six months bad mouthing Corbyn and Labour and bigging up Johnson and the Tories?

The cunt.

Anyhow who voted Tory should hang their head in shame.

[JimmyDee]

... the young, the strong and otherwise healthy critters will survive and develop immunity if it strikes again but the sick and the old will perish.
Darwinism, in other words.

A pedant writes:
That's a Nazi misunderstanding of Darwinism. He never said "the strongest" but "the fittest".
Grass, for example, doesn't strangle grazing animals to death, but it DOES survive, due to growing from the bottom, not the tip. It is therefore the "fittest" to survive when grazed, but it has no strength, in the warlike sense.
Immunity from a virus isn't a magical thing, given only to young men who are good in a punch-up outside a pub. It doesn't work like that. Spanish Flu, for some reason, killed off the young.

[Basualdo]

... the young, the strong and otherwise healthy critters will survive and develop immunity if it strikes again but the sick and the old will perish.
Darwinism, in other words.

A pedant writes:
That's a Nazi misunderstanding of Darwinism. He never said "the strongest" but "the fittest".
Grass, for example, doesn't strangle grazing animals to death, but it DOES survive, due to growing from the bottom, not the tip. It is therefore the "fittest" to survive when grazed, but it has no strength, in the warlike sense.
Immunity from a virus isn't a magical thing, given only to young men who are good in a punch-up outside a pub. It doesn't work like that. Spanish Flu, for some reason, killed off the young.

You can see how the Nazis confused the two.
That Ernst Rohm-like obsession with films of skinny blond youths in long shorts waving big bowling pins around in sync. It wasn't just their right arms that went stiff in salute.