Alfie Evans

[Eaststand]

... the NHS is fucking amazing and admired around the world.

I don't see too many countries trying to copy it.

Because they couldn't afford to do it. We barely can.

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[m4 colin]

... the NHS is fucking amazing and admired around the world.

I don't see too many countries trying to copy it.

They wont and they cant because they are already arse deep in hock to vested interests like insurance titans and big pharma

[Royal24s]

... the NHS is fucking amazing and admired around the world.

I don't see too many countries trying to copy it.

No, and I've never heard anyone in developed countries abroad say anything about it except to take the piss or offer sympathy to you for having to pay so much of your income for a third world service.

The only people I've consistently heard say that are the BBC , who also claim they themselves are the envy of the broadcasting world . It's bollocks in both cases and hospitals and doctors offices in the USA make British ones look like filthy disease ridden charnel houses they are .

As you say, if it worked other countries would do it, wouldn't they ?

[Eaststand]

What problems have you had with the NHS personally, Royals?

[Hillman avenger]

... the NHS is fucking amazing and admired around the world.

I don't see too many countries trying to copy it.

No, and I've never heard anyone in developed countries abroad say anything about it except to take the piss or offer sympathy to you for having to pay so much of your income for a third world service.
So our experiences differ. Amazing

The only people I've consistently heard say that are the BBC , who also claim they themselves are the envy of the broadcasting world
No it is regularly the case,from various bodies.

It's bollocks in both cases and hospitals and doctors offices in the USA make British ones look like filthy disease ridden charnel houses they are .
They have a health care system that delivers poor outcomes despite consuming almost twice the proportion of GDP. It's ludicrous that the life expectation in the US is so low. They pay FAR more for healthcare than we do in taxes. It's just that it is paid to commercial insurers like Kaiser Permanente rather than the state.

As you say, if it worked other countries would do it, wouldn't they ?
And many that can afford it do. In the US a bit like gun law the vested interests claim public healthcare contravenes the constitution.

[VeritasVincit]

When a friend was told he needed a multiple by-pass, he asked the consultant what it would cost privately [my friend is not short of a bob or two]. He was told, to use the NHS. If it’s a major job use NHS, for relatively minor stuff that isn’t urgent go private.
I had a major job done four years ago. The care I got was second to none.
My sister had a hip-job done privately and was less than satisfied with the care she got.
I have experienced both private and NHS and have always been satisfied with the NHS.

[Hillman avenger]

When a friend was told he needed a multiple by-pass, he asked the consultant what it would cost privately [my friend is not short of a bob or two]. He was told, to use the NHS. If it’s a major job use NHS, for relatively minor stuff that isn’t urgent go private.
I had a major job done four years ago. The care I got was second to none.
My sister had a hip-job done privately and was less than satisfied with the care she got.
I have experienced both private and NHS and have always been satisfied with the NHS.

The UK private sector healthcare is really only interested in replicable operations- for example, new hips. If they can process patients in a given time for a given procedure, they can monetise it.
You don't see private operators offering A and E, or Geriatrics, or similar unpredictable conditions. And if you read your private health insurance carefully you will find they won't cover chronic conditions ( which is what most of us are likely to have).
The only private operator to take over a hospital, Circle Health, walked away from it in about a year because the whole enterprise was way too complex for them.
I have had treatment from the NHS for one acute condition- when I broke my neck- and a couple of chronic conditions, and could not fault it.
The only way in which we are going to see great improvement in the NHS is to pay more than our current 7-8% of GDP- and give it 5 years for the improvement to work its way through- for example, in more doctors.

[Royal24s]

What problems have you had with the NHS personally, Royals?

Wouldn't know where to start really.
I've certainly been wrongly advised that a relatives illness was inoperable , which turned out to be quite wrong, ( although I'd appreciate that part of this post not being explored more than that in the public thread).
More generally I've been repeatedly given duff advice down the years myself , which would have resulted in unnecessary surgery , unnecessary dietary restrictions and unnecessary lifestyle changes if I'd listened to them.
Professionally I've seen them pissingabout in casualty, drinking tea and fucking about when there are big queues. Remember, as a young police officer going in there with accidents assaults and sudden deaths I'd get invited into the back to join in the general party atmosphere , ( which at the time in fairness I did ).

That's all incidental though really. I've also seen the difference in other countries where the patients receive the manners and respect they should rather than being treated like a general fucking nuisance by the staff, and the places are clean , with modern equipment and treatments immediately available .

Personally I've never been a doctor botherer, to be honest I don't hesitate to go private if I do need one, ( which I know I'm lucky to be able to do), and I'm not open to the constant bloody propoganda we get from the media about how great the standards are. Therefore it's not a thing which I worry about much , but I certainly wouldn't trust them to know what they're doing or to be much concerned about bothering to do it.

What I don't like is people being conned into this false sense of security that anyone in an NHS uniform is all knowing and all caring. I also don't like the fact that from what I've seen elsewhere people are being conned into over paying for something they wrongly believe to be a good service, and I certainly don't like the fact that clinical decisions are bound to be made partly on financial grounds in a system like that .

That's just my personal experience and view, which is what you asked. It must be said that there are much wider implications which I'm sure there is at least one specific thread about.

In short, medical practitioners should be accountable directly to their patients , not any third party , and the patient should be able to decide which medical practitioners they employ.

What we have here is some compulsory whip round for take away food where you get what your given. You might want Chinese and youve paid for it, but you get a kebab delivered by a bloke who speaks to you like a cunt, throws it on the floor and tells you how lucky you are to be fed.

[Royal24s]

Hillman: they don't CLAIM restricting the right to bear arms contravenes the Constitution. It DOES contravene the Constitution .
- you sound like the BBC.

[Eaststand]

See, Im totally the opposite, Ive had quite a lot wrong with me recently, and the service Ive received has been amazing, everybodys been so helpful and nice.

And years ago, I fractured my skull and discharged myself because the adrenaline was flowing and I wanted to go back to work, I was just saying I had a bit of a headache, they didnt want to let me go, but I insisted, and at the end of the doctor who saw mes shift, he came to my pub to beg me to go back to hospital as he thought I had something seriously wrong with me, by that time I wasnt feeling too clever at all, so he was right, and he actually gave a shit.

There has been some hiccups, as a result of my skull falling to pieces, Ive developed something called cluster headaches, something I get in clusters (hence the name) every few years, but this is incredibly rare, and my case is one of the worst known ever recorded, because when I get them, I get about 20-30 of them a day, and the pain is the worst pain imaginable, think of a corkscrew being slowly twisted in and out of your eye and youve got the idea. But because of the severity of these, they didnt know what was wrong with me and kept misdiagnosing me for months, they thought I had meningitis, they thought I had a brain tumour, they thought I might have a brain disease, they gave me medicine that nearly killed me once, but one geezer finally figured it out, and after spending a long time in hospital, I was all right. But I dont hold that against them, theres no real rulebook for this sort of stuff, no one had a clue what was going on with me, but they didnt fuck me off and give in, they sussed it in the end, and for that I am forever grateful.

But nowadays, I'm having some problems that require physiotherapy, all booked in within a month of the complaint, I needed an xray because my shoulder keeps dislocating during having a kip (fucking weird) on thursday, had one on friday. I need kickass painkillers to stop myself screaming at the moment, sure have some of those, Mr Eaststand.

I know you hear horror stories, but on my own personal experience, I cant fault this organisation. I dont know, and this is not a slight at anyone, but maybe, you have a better experience if you are pleasant to people and dont instantly blame them for whats wrong, because its them who are there to solve, I dont know, but I fail to see how I could have something horrific happen to me at the hands of the NHS.

[Eaststand]

Hillman: they don't CLAIM restricting the right to bear arms contravenes the Constitution. It DOES contravene the Constitution .
- you sound like the BBC.

You know that was initially only intended for militia, right? The NRA lobbied to get it changed for regular folk in the 80s.

Puts a slightly different slant on it, doesnt it?

[Royal24s]

No. The meaning of militia in 1776 was citizens capable of arming themselves to face violent emergencies , not what we might understand by that term today . The armed force was General Washington's Continental Army.
It wasn't changed in the 1980s. If it'd been changed that'd be a new amendment itself, which is the only way to change an existing amendment, and it's a massive process - more than a general election .

What happened in the 1980s and a number of times since was people challenging the meaning of " a well armed militia" and trying to suggest that it didn't mean ordinary citizens. Each and every time this has been raised the argument has been defeated because it's clear bollocks .

The word "nice" at that time, for example meant exact. It had no other meaning and certainly not the meaning which it has today. Now, if we found some law from that period which said that a company's accounts must be "nice" , it would be quite ridiculous to suggest that they now have to be pleasant, wouldn't it ?

[Eaststand]

Not true, man.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... 106856?o=0

[Royal24s]

See, Im totally the opposite, Ive had quite a lot wrong with me recently, and the service Ive received has been amazing, everybodys been so helpful and nice.

And years ago, I fractured my skull and discharged myself because the adrenaline was flowing and I wanted to go back to work, I was just saying I had a bit of a headache, they didnt want to let me go, but I insisted, and at the end of the doctor who saw mes shift, he came to my pub to beg me to go back to hospital as he thought I had something seriously wrong with me, by that time I wasnt feeling too clever at all, so he was right, and he actually gave a shit.

There has been some hiccups, as a result of my skull falling to pieces, Ive developed something called cluster headaches, something I get in clusters (hence the name) every few years, but this is incredibly rare, and my case is one of the worst known ever recorded, because when I get them, I get about 20-30 of them a day, and the pain is the worst pain imaginable, think of a corkscrew being slowly twisted in and out of your eye and youve got the idea. But because of the severity of these, they didnt know what was wrong with me and kept misdiagnosing me for months, they thought I had meningitis, they thought I had a brain tumour, they thought I might have a brain disease, they gave me medicine that nearly killed me once, but one geezer finally figured it out, and after spending a long time in hospital, I was all right. But I dont hold that against them, theres no real rulebook for this sort of stuff, no one had a clue what was going on with me, but they didnt fuck me off and give in, they sussed it in the end, and for that I am forever grateful.

But nowadays, I'm having some problems that require physiotherapy, all booked in within a month of the complaint, I needed an xray because my shoulder keeps dislocating during having a kip (fucking weird) on thursday, had one on friday. I need kickass painkillers to stop myself screaming at the moment, sure have some of those, Mr Eaststand.

I know you hear horror stories, but on my own personal experience, I cant fault this organisation. I dont know, and this is not a slight at anyone, but maybe, you have a better experience if you are pleasant to people and dont instantly blame them for whats wrong, because its them who are there to solve, I dont know, but I fail to see how I could have something horrific happen to me at the hands of the NHS.

That's the most remarkable coincidence because something almost identical happened to me. I'd been stabbed and had a fractured skull whilst arresting someone in a big crowd in Notting Hill and I discharged myself from St Mary's because I didn't like their attitude.
The family GP, ( when such chaps existed) came round the following morning at 8 o'clock and gave me a big bollocking for being such stubborn bloody minded Twat and told me I was lucky I hadn't died of internal bleeding in the night.
I was lucky because I never had any after effects though I probably deserved them, but yes of course there are good doctors and dedicated professionals - it's just that I'd prefer to be able to choose which ones I want treating me rather than take pot luck and be one of the unlucky ones who gets treated by some wanker.

Can't believe coincidence though. Maybe that's why I like you so much even though we frequently disagree - we share the bombastic nature which might make someone book themselves out of medical care with bits still hanging off !

[Royal24s]

Norse ancestry I expect