Brexit - Part 11

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Royal24s
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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby Royal24s » Wed May 15, 2019 11:23 am

Hillman avenger wrote:
Royal24s wrote:
Hillman avenger wrote:
Royal24s wrote:
Hillman avenger wrote:The fact remains that for whatever reason the referendum was not binding. If you don't like that go talk to the judges.

But even if it was, dare I mention common sense? Should we carry on with something which will patently be disastrous just because we said we would three years ago based on what could euphemistically be called incomplete information?

Then there's the whole question of what is the "result"? Even without going outside the Tory party there are at least two, and possibly four, different versions of what "Leave" meant. That ambiguity is one of the reasons it has gone all around the houses.



Why would you talk to Judges ? They don't make laws you know.
Nor is anyone seriously suggesting that the referrendum be ignored because it's not technically legally binding, so it's not a question for Judges.
If not in law, in practicality and by Convention the result is binding.

You can't resist trying to be a smart arse and it blows up in your face.
For someone with such an allegedly high-powered career you show little grasp of many things.
No-one suggested that judges make law.
But in determining its interpretation and application, they define the law in practice, frequently.
And that is especially true of regulations and so on.
In this case, Leave had been found guilty of exceeding the expense limits, by the Electoral Commission. They appealed and it ended up in the High Court and the Supreme Court.
The final ruling was that Leave was not guilty of exceeding spending limits, BECAUSE THEY DON'T APPLY TO AN ADVISORY VOTE.
Not me, them.
Perhaps your reliance on Reuters and your mates for information, missed that?
Whether voters believed it was binding, why it wasn't, who knows?
Equally it would help if we could accept that the 17.4m Leave voters would not all have had the same interpretation of what they were voting for. I am certainly aware of some who thought it would lead to asians being expelled from the UK. I am also aware of some who thought we could "regain our sovereignty" ( that myth) without losing the economic benefits of membership. And so on.
You have told us many times about how dumb-downed the populace is, why were they suddenly really smart when they addressed this issue?



Yeah nice try but you should have the sense not to argue with me about the law because it used to be my job.
You seem to be suggesting that a decision in the High Court sitting as an appellant Court in the administration of electoral rules is binding as a precedent upon the Palace of Westminster, the House of Commons and ultimately the Crown in affairs of state and primary legislation.

Dear me. I am telling you WHAT HAPPENED. That's how Leave didn't get prosecuted. Done and dusted. And don't try trying to blind people with science; you know perfectly well, or you should, that much law gets in practice defined and shaped by court judgements, whatever was originally intended. That's why in the US Trump is stuffing the judiciary with his cronies to allow the winding-back to the Stone Ages. And if the decisions of the courts end up pointing the action away from what the legislature intended, at some point the legislature may revise the legislation.
In this case, for whatever reason, when Parliament approved the referendum, through error or calculation it was not established as a binding vote.

- I don't think it's me trying to be a smart arse and getting it wrong you know .

Now, I've told you many times ,it's true, that there's a deliberate campaign to dumb down the population. It's also true that it's been horribly successful in many ways, but I ve certainly never said that everyone has fallen for it, and I've certainly never suggested that we do exactly what the establishment wants and does it for - ie. Ignore the will of the people , abandon democracy and establish a new breed of kings appointed not by God but by multi national companies and political theorists .
And I don't think anyone intends that, so that's OK isn't it? I find your stance that people are dumbed-down, but that all changes when they support what what you want. I will continue to oppose it anyway, as I think it will set us back decades
Perhaps the people weren't so smart when they chose Blair or Obama, but those decisions had to be respected and so does this one.




Okay, well in simple terms the decisions and interpretations of judges in courts are only binding on equivalent or lower Courts. Even then there are exceptions and never ever on legislators .

Thus, and in short, you're talking bollocks on the subject.

Not going to repeat myself about dumbing down .
'"Beauty is truth, truth beauty,
That is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know".

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Steve Hunt
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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby Steve Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 11:39 am

Can we all agree on one thing, I wonder?

That being in May's game now hoping the Tories get smashed at the EU elections, that it scares all her MPs (and many Labour MPs) into supporting her deal and that it will therefore pass when it's presented again?

What do you think, Hillman? Plausible?
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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby Steve Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 11:48 am

One good thing about this is that the group wanting to preserve the staus quo, the ironically named ChangeUK are imploding at an impressive rate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-48281672

No wonder Soubry, Chukka & Co refuse to have by-elections.
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Hillman avenger
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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby Hillman avenger » Wed May 15, 2019 12:37 pm

Steve Hunt wrote:Can we all agree on one thing, I wonder?

That being in May's game now hoping the Tories get smashed at the EU elections, that it scares all her MPs (and many Labour MPs) into supporting her deal and that it will therefore pass when it's presented again?

What do you think, Hillman? Plausible?

I don't think she thinks that far Steve.

That's why I doubt your premise that there is an "establishment stitch-up"...there isn't the capability.

For your idea to work you would MPs would have to think that this would transfer to a General Election. I hope to God it doesn't because there are way too many really important issues outside of Brexit and if people voted on the same basis I would despair.
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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby Roy Twing » Wed May 15, 2019 8:03 pm

Anyone listen to PMQs today?
I missed the first 10mins or so, but no mention of brexit.
Unless the forthcoming (perhaps) euro elections prevents mentioning it, I wonder why (if so) the establishment leaders chose to avoid clashing on it.
Despite what the establishment try to propagate, - we brexiters most definitely do know what we voted for

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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby Darkyboy » Wed May 15, 2019 11:20 pm

EU collaborators attempt to stop people attending a Brexit party rally:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48275830

Why are some people so afraid of democracy, that they adopt the tactics usually associated with dictatorships?
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PG30
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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby PG30 » Thu May 16, 2019 1:16 am

Steve Hunt wrote:One good thing about this is that the group wanting to preserve the staus quo, the ironically named ChangeUK are imploding at an impressive rate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-48281672

No wonder Soubry, Chukka & Co refuse to have by-elections.


One of the most pathetic attempts to start a new political party ever

All they’ve really done is push remain voters to mainly vote for the liberals and greens

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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby VeritasVincit » Thu May 16, 2019 1:53 pm

Ms. Soubry was elected as Conservative MP, yet I keep seeing her referred to a ChangeUK MP.

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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby AlcoholBrazil » Thu May 16, 2019 1:59 pm

VeritasVincit wrote:Ms. Soubry was elected as Conservative MP, yet I keep seeing her referred to a ChangeUK MP.



She should be fighting a by-election not the EU election, the drunken old soak.
We live in a faux democracy and are nothing but cattle for the EU .

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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby Royal24s » Thu May 16, 2019 4:42 pm

Darkyboy wrote:EU collaborators attempt to stop people attending a Brexit party rally:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48275830

Why are some people so afraid of democracy, that they adopt the tactics usually associated with dictatorships?


Cause it IS a dictatorship . Uniquely it's neither been elected nor is it likely to be able to win in the only other alternative to accepting a democratic vote, which is an armed struggle.
However, for the time being the anti Brexit junta is running exactly that - a dictatorship .



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That is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know".

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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby Zambo » Fri May 17, 2019 12:43 pm

Oh no, that's torn it. :?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... looms.html

BoJo for PM, he'll sort it.
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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby Hillman avenger » Fri May 17, 2019 1:51 pm

Zambo wrote:Oh no, that's torn it. :?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... looms.html

BoJo for PM, he'll sort it.

Sadly necessary
In the same way as it is necessary to take drunk drivers off the road
If people will not act responsibly, they should not be able to harm others.
Listen to Talksport and let it be a lesson to you

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Royal24s
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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby Royal24s » Fri May 17, 2019 5:05 pm

Hillman avenger wrote:
Zambo wrote:Oh no, that's torn it. :?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... looms.html

BoJo for PM, he'll sort it.

Sadly necessary
In the same way as it is necessary to take drunk drivers off the road
If people will not act responsibly, they should not be able to harm others.



Hang on...... Who's the drunk driver here ? Boris or Corby or Theresa May ?
Are you saying that those who oppose the neo Nazi agenda of the EU should be " taken off the road ", ( is that a sinister globalist euphemism ?)
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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby m4rkb » Fri May 17, 2019 9:08 pm

Jesus wept. This is a point.
The only two reasons I can come up with why this travesty was allowed to happen is either the Tories are permanently doomed or they've had a word in the right place and were told them don't worry we're not leaving the EU and you'll soon regain your status when people eventually come to realise it.

If Brexit proves nothing else it has highlighted the total inadequacies of those we have voted into power for decades. This is why none of them are able to even contemplate running the UK as an independent entity and why they all just look to the well organised federalist fanatics in the EU to tun the country for us.


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Royal24s
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Re: Brexit - Part 11

Postby Royal24s » Fri May 17, 2019 9:50 pm

I think both big parties have been prepared to destroy themselves in a kamikaze mission to defend their foreign sponsors against th British people.
I'd need a whole new system before I'd vote again after Brexit or any longer accept the right of parliament to make laws. I'm sure that many people feel the same
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