talkFORUM

I think there must be an equivalent to godwin's law which relates to forum discussions about benefit fraud, which is that, sooner or later, a comparison will be made to tax evasion.
I think we're getting close.

So someone required to provide enough proof to show they gavd a mental disability is akin to fraud and tax evasion? Good yo see your sneery vindictiveness is alive and kicking.

ToRmAtO wrote:

Zambo wrote: Here's a starter for Six

Operation Bluebird
Counterfeit badges
Using a lost or stolen badge
Using the badge of a deceased person.
Cost - Genuine badge holders save around £2500 per year on London Congestion charges alone, plus residents parking permits etc etc
Cost again - taking enforcement action

The hunt for disabled Aliens?

No. That shouldn't really have been mentioned for security reasons, and I'd hoped it'd passed un noticed.
In fact , it is the secret operation currently being undertaken in and around South Wales under the overall command of General Sir Neil Warnock and involving thousands of volunteers to sweep opposition aside with irresistible force and restore Cardiff City to the premiership immediately.
Be afraid !

Royal24s wrote:

Petingo wrote:

Royal24s wrote:

Zambo wrote:

Royal24s wrote:I think there are a lot of forgeries too. The whole thing seems to be a lot more trouble than it's worth really .

I still think it's an important benefit. I don't know how some people would manage without it now. It's being spoilt by the usual lazy cunts, who feel they have the right to cheat the system.

Down Sainsburys last Friday. Saw a bloke park in a disabled bay, he got out and sprinted to the cash machine. Had to walk past his car and there was a badge on the dash.

Maybe he was suffering anxiety wondering if he had enogh cash in his account. You know, the sort that will soon be entitled to a badge.

We now seem to live in a world of strange ideas of entitlement, and apathy about changing these ideas, together with those in cloud cukooland, who think these stupid ideas are going to work, and everyone who has a disabilty is going to be happy ever after.

That's my point really. They make all these rules about where you can park in the first place, then they make exceptions in some cases and everyone ends up being pissed off.

We have already established that you haven't a clue what you are talking about on this subject, hey boy.

You might be better employed refraining from commenting on it, Brother R.

Nah. I think I'll retain the choice of whether to comment thanks .
I expect I understand the subject as well as most people - it's not a complex one - but my opinion is that it causes more problems than it solves. That's a matter of proportionality and it's a perfectly reasonable stance.

You are right about one thing, Bro.

You do indeed “understand the subject as well as most people”.

But as “most people” haven’t a clue how the Blue Badge schene works that is not much to boast about innit.

And you have demonstrated your own ignorance on the subject most admirably.

Still, as you say you “retain the choice” to comment on whatever takes your fancy.

But you also have the “choice” to find out sommat about said fancy before posting ignorant tripe and making yourself look like a fool.

Your choice, my good man

Zambo wrote:

Hillman avenger wrote: Is this because like many others, you object to mental illness being taken seriously?

Yeah, I was waiting for someone to say that, and I'm not surprised it was you. Have concerns about a scheme involving handicapped people, and you get labelled as someone who doesn't want mental ilness to be taken seriously. Do you want to identify the post or posts which made you form that opinion, or are you just going to continue to be a coward and keep on goading and fire insults on the basis of disagreement.

Are you really surprised when you use the term "invisible" disability?
What is the point in saying that unless it is to imply "fraud" ?
And yes, no doubt there are cheats, and I feel at least as strongly about that as anyone else here.
But if you put it in context, at the moment the problem is the other way- too many people being wrongly denied benefits under the assessment system.

Zambo wrote:To be honest, with the way this thread has gone, I can't be arsed to go back through it all. If you still interested check it out yourself. It's blatantly obvious that it's a big problem now which will get worse with the new scheme. Here is one headline, which you maybe surprised is not in the Mail. It's from the agendaless Indy

Figures show 45 per cent rise in stolen disabled parking permits

Shame, I would have thought it would have been easy to recall where you read the research showing significant abuse and shared it to support your claim.

Oh well.

Vespa wrote:

Zambo wrote:To be honest, with the way this thread has gone, I can't be arsed to go back through it all. If you still interested check it out yourself. It's blatantly obvious that it's a big problem now which will get worse with the new scheme. Here is one headline, which you maybe surprised is not in the Mail. It's from the agendaless Indy

Figures show 45 per cent rise in stolen disabled parking permits

Shame, I would have thought it would have been easy to recall where you read the research showing significant abuse and shared it to support your claim.

Oh well.

As Zummers is unable to post up anything referring to the the increase, I'll help him.

But if you look into the article, the key points I have extracted out are as follows:

- This [45%] increase marks a rise in thefts for the fifth year running with 656 recorded in 2013. It mean that this year’s figures are more than six times higher than they were five years ago.

but look:
- Fraudsters have increasingly been prosecuted by councils in the past year for using stolen or lost badges and using relatives’ badges in order to scam free parking to go shopping or travel to work.

- “Illegally using a Blue Badge is not a victimless crime. For disabled people, Blue Badges are a vital lifeline that helps them get out and about to visit shops or family and friends. Callous thieves and unscrupulous fraudsters using them illegally are robbing disabled people of this independence.

- "Despite limited resources, councils continue to work hard to crackdown on this growing crime. More Blue Badge fraudsters than ever are being brought to justice by councils who will come down hard on drivers illegally using them.

- "It is important to catch these criminals in the act. To help councils win the fight against Blue Badge fraud, residents must keep tipping us off about people they suspect are illegally using a badge, bearing in mind people’s need for a badge might not be obvious.”

So we can now establish that there are callous thieves and unscrupulous fraudsters that stop legitimate people from using them and councils are taking more robust methods to bring about prosecutions.

Of course, it's the headline grabbing 45% increase that jumps out and sadly, others use that to claim that there are "invisible" claimants that are akin to tax evaders. Shameful how the disadvantaged are looked down on in society and the DM sadly propagates these fears.

Hillman avenger wrote:

Zambo wrote:

Hillman avenger wrote: Is this because like many others, you object to mental illness being taken seriously?

Yeah, I was waiting for someone to say that, and I'm not surprised it was you. Have concerns about a scheme involving handicapped people, and you get labelled as someone who doesn't want mental ilness to be taken seriously. Do you want to identify the post or posts which made you form that opinion, or are you just going to continue to be a coward and keep on goading and fire insults on the basis of disagreement.

Are you really surprised when you use the term "invisible" disability?
What is the point in saying that unless it is to imply "fraud" ?
And yes, no doubt there are cheats, and I feel at least as strongly about that as anyone else here.
But if you put it in context, at the moment the problem is the other way- too many people being wrongly denied benefits under the assessment system.

I didn't come up with the term invisible illnesses. Its all over the press. It's being used to describe depression anxiety and autism etc.

kancutlawns wrote:

Vespa wrote:

Zambo wrote:To be honest, with the way this thread has gone, I can't be arsed to go back through it all. If you still interested check it out yourself. It's blatantly obvious that it's a big problem now which will get worse with the new scheme. Here is one headline, which you maybe surprised is not in the Mail. It's from the agendaless Indy

Figures show 45 per cent rise in stolen disabled parking permits

Shame, I would have thought it would have been easy to recall where you read the research showing significant abuse and shared it to support your claim.

Oh well.

As Zummers is unable to post up anything referring to the the increase, I'll help him.

But if you look into the article, the key points I have extracted out are as follows:

- This [45%] increase marks a rise in thefts for the fifth year running with 656 recorded in 2013. It mean that this year’s figures are more than six times higher than they were five years ago.

but look:
- Fraudsters have increasingly been prosecuted by councils in the past year for using stolen or lost badges and using relatives’ badges in order to scam free parking to go shopping or travel to work.

- “Illegally using a Blue Badge is not a victimless crime. For disabled people, Blue Badges are a vital lifeline that helps them get out and about to visit shops or family and friends. Callous thieves and unscrupulous fraudsters using them illegally are robbing disabled people of this independence.

- "Despite limited resources, councils continue to work hard to crackdown on this growing crime. More Blue Badge fraudsters than ever are being brought to justice by councils who will come down hard on drivers illegally using them.

- "It is important to catch these criminals in the act. To help councils win the fight against Blue Badge fraud, residents must keep tipping us off about people they suspect are illegally using a badge, bearing in mind people’s need for a badge might not be obvious.”

So we can now establish that there are callous thieves and unscrupulous fraudsters that stop legitimate people from using them and councils are taking more robust methods to bring about prosecutions.

Of course, it's the headline grabbing 45% increase that jumps out and sadly, others use that to claim that there are "invisible" claimants that are akin to tax evaders. Shameful how the disadvantaged are looked down on in society and the DM sadly propagates these fears.

From the links I provided further up the thread numbers of blue badges have been declining in the last few years - maybe because they are mostly linked to disability benefits.

kancutlawns wrote:

Vespa wrote:

Zambo wrote:To be honest, with the way this thread has gone, I can't be arsed to go back through it all. If you still interested check it out yourself. It's blatantly obvious that it's a big problem now which will get worse with the new scheme. Here is one headline, which you maybe surprised is not in the Mail. It's from the agendaless Indy

Figures show 45 per cent rise in stolen disabled parking permits

Shame, I would have thought it would have been easy to recall where you read the research showing significant abuse and shared it to support your claim.

Oh well.

As Zummers is unable to post up anything referring to the the increase, I'll help him.

But if you look into the article, the key points I have extracted out are as follows:

- This [45%] increase marks a rise in thefts for the fifth year running with 656 recorded in 2013. It mean that this year’s figures are more than six times higher than they were five years ago.

but look:
- Fraudsters have increasingly been prosecuted by councils in the past year for using stolen or lost badges and using relatives’ badges in order to scam free parking to go shopping or travel to work.

- “Illegally using a Blue Badge is not a victimless crime. For disabled people, Blue Badges are a vital lifeline that helps them get out and about to visit shops or family and friends. Callous thieves and unscrupulous fraudsters using them illegally are robbing disabled people of this independence.

- "Despite limited resources, councils continue to work hard to crackdown on this growing crime. More Blue Badge fraudsters than ever are being brought to justice by councils who will come down hard on drivers illegally using them.

- "It is important to catch these criminals in the act. To help councils win the fight against Blue Badge fraud, residents must keep tipping us off about people they suspect are illegally using a badge, bearing in mind people’s need for a badge might not be obvious.”

So we can now establish that there are callous thieves and unscrupulous fraudsters that stop legitimate people from using them and councils are taking more robust methods to bring about prosecutions.

Of course, it's the headline grabbing 45% increase that jumps out and sadly, others use that to claim that there are "invisible" claimants that are akin to tax evaders. Shameful how the disadvantaged are looked down on in society and the DM sadly propagates these fears.

I didn't say I couldn't come up with them, I said I couldn't be arsed to go through the research again. Because of the prejudice and narrow mindedness, it's really not worth starting or even contributing to threads at the moment on here, it's just turns into a merrygoround of duplication.

Vespa wrote:

Zambo wrote:

Vespa wrote:

Zambo wrote:
Again, if anyone is interested, I'm happy to discuss that, but not the source that triggered that opinion. If posters want to continue to run rings round me, as my old friend Lawns thinks has happened, then that's ok as well.

Could you provide the research you mentioned that showed widespread fraud?

I like to stimulate discussion and encourage people to do their own research. Google 'abuse of blue badge scheme' and see what you can come up with.

Here's a starter for Six

Operation Bluebird
Counterfeit badges
Using a lost or stolen badge
Using the badge of a deceased person.
Cost - Genuine badge holders save around £2500 per year on London Congestion charges alone, plus residents parking permits etc etc
Cost again - taking enforcement action

It's very clear to see that when they bring the new scheme in, it is going to make it much harder for existing badge holders to park, because councils have not planned for it. It is also clear to see that we are going to have much more fraudulent use, and that's on top on those who are going to get a badge who shouldn't qualify.

It's all very well just saying, oh this is a great idea because people with invisible health problems are going to benefit by it and ignoring the obvious negative aspect, and ridiculing anyone who comes up with some potential pitfalls, mainly based on the source of information, but I guess it's what the forum has become. This place will never attract new members whilst we have this shit going on.

#sadtimesonTalkforum

You said:

Zambo wrote: I don't know how many are fiddling the system, but it's clear from research, that there is a significant amount of abuse of the current blue badge scheme, with not much success or effort to catch those doing it.

From this statement, there was a clear inference that it was a conclusion based on some research you had read. Could you provide that rather than asking me to google it?

Zambo wrote: It's all very well just saying, oh this is a great idea because people with invisible health problems are going to benefit by it and ignoring the obvious negative aspect, and ridiculing anyone who comes up with some potential pitfalls, mainly based on the source of information, but I guess it's what the forum has become.

To be fair, you've claimed that you've read clear research showing 'significant amount of abuse' and we'd like to see that source of the information you've based that statement on.

Could you provide it, please?

A 2 minute google of specific examplescame back with far too many examples to bother reading, - here's a few:

https://metro.co.uk/2018/12/10/man-lied ... d-8226963/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... y-12001424

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/83865 ... arity-walk

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/68836 ... rown-Court

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... ing-bowls/

https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/30/benefits ... g-8088324/

https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/19/benefits ... n-9598666/



https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/m ... s-15013680
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/all-about/benefits-cheats
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 44096.html

Yes
We know that benefits get abused.
And that's disgraceful.
So what is it you want done about them?

Zambo wrote: I didn't say I couldn't come up with them, I said I couldn't be arsed to go through the research again. Because of the prejudice and narrow mindedness, it's really not worth starting or even contributing to threads at the moment on here, it's just turns into a merrygoround of duplication.

I'm not narrowminded to evidence, why not just show the research you've seen for widespread abuse?

Vespa wrote:

Zambo wrote: I didn't say I couldn't come up with them, I said I couldn't be arsed to go through the research again. Because of the prejudice and narrow mindedness, it's really not worth starting or even contributing to threads at the moment on here, it's just turns into a merrygoround of duplication.

I'm not narrowminded to evidence, why not just show the research you've seen for widespread abuse?

It's officially around £1.6billion a year, according to another 30 second google.

Roy Twing wrote:

Vespa wrote:

Zambo wrote: I didn't say I couldn't come up with them, I said I couldn't be arsed to go through the research again. Because of the prejudice and narrow mindedness, it's really not worth starting or even contributing to threads at the moment on here, it's just turns into a merrygoround of duplication.

I'm not narrowminded to evidence, why not just show the research you've seen for widespread abuse?

It's officially around £1.6billion a year, according to another 30 second google.

Give it up, you could plaster the thread with one hundred links and the denial would continue.

At the end of the day, ideally all handicapped people should be able to take advantage of the scheme, but various inhibitors means that will never happen. The latest idea will cause resentment, a shedload of problems and issues and will end up a disaster.

A few people on here throwing their arms up in outrage and accusing others of not caring about handicapped people won't change owt.