Climate & Other Protesters Discussion

[Roy Twing]

Yes, of course, but not exclusively.
I haven't read enough of this thread (nor do I wish to) to know which side of the divide you fall, but I do believe that as long as the human race and associated farmed mammals continues to grow at over 1% each year (80+ million extra CO2 production units), the green crowd are urinating in the wind.
For some odd reason, the green bunch don't seem quite so vociferous about population growth as one would expect.

A lot of it can be offset by shifting the energy base, which China is doing at the moment.

The issue the west exported their carbon problem to the places that produce the stuff they consume. Those countries are shifting their manufacturing and energy base faster than the West now. China has 30% of the World's renewable energy plants, close to 200,000.

The mind boggling thing is we'll probably end up buying renewable technologies form India and China when we could have developed them locally and sold them globally if people hadn't fallen for the 'meh ... what about China'

China is also going to do the same with GMO, something Britain was far and away the global leader on less than 15 years ago.

I don't think we have/had a choice regarding China etc., developing renewables, - our masters have as you say, used China & co as our factory bases, - they were always going to be producing much of the materials required to generate 'green stuff'.
My bottom line on this is very much the 'meh, what about China' - you imply in your opening sentence that it is 'doing something' to reduce emissions, - but all I've really seen are stats which show no meaningful reductions.
I may be wrong, but it looks to my cynical mind that they are saying what the green lot over here want to to hear, but are actually doing very little in fact.
I really do not know conclusively the answer to this, but if global CO2 levels are actually reducing as a result of China & Co's supposed efforts, - I'd fully accept that the protesters have a point.

I guess I'll assume then, that China & all the other nice fossil fuel guzzlers haven't actually reduced anything, - just jam tomorrow.
And those that wish to believe it, will believe it.

Over a third of China's output is renewables, where Europe have transitioned from coal to gas, China is going coal to renewables. Europes goal for renewables is a fifth.

So China's emissions have reduced then?

[Vespa]

Yes, of course, but not exclusively.
I haven't read enough of this thread (nor do I wish to) to know which side of the divide you fall, but I do believe that as long as the human race and associated farmed mammals continues to grow at over 1% each year (80+ million extra CO2 production units), the green crowd are urinating in the wind.
For some odd reason, the green bunch don't seem quite so vociferous about population growth as one would expect.

A lot of it can be offset by shifting the energy base, which China is doing at the moment.

The issue the west exported their carbon problem to the places that produce the stuff they consume. Those countries are shifting their manufacturing and energy base faster than the West now. China has 30% of the World's renewable energy plants, close to 200,000.

The mind boggling thing is we'll probably end up buying renewable technologies form India and China when we could have developed them locally and sold them globally if people hadn't fallen for the 'meh ... what about China'

China is also going to do the same with GMO, something Britain was far and away the global leader on less than 15 years ago.

I don't think we have/had a choice regarding China etc., developing renewables, - our masters have as you say, used China & co as our factory bases, - they were always going to be producing much of the materials required to generate 'green stuff'.
My bottom line on this is very much the 'meh, what about China' - you imply in your opening sentence that it is 'doing something' to reduce emissions, - but all I've really seen are stats which show no meaningful reductions.
I may be wrong, but it looks to my cynical mind that they are saying what the green lot over here want to to hear, but are actually doing very little in fact.
I really do not know conclusively the answer to this, but if global CO2 levels are actually reducing as a result of China & Co's supposed efforts, - I'd fully accept that the protesters have a point.

I guess I'll assume then, that China & all the other nice fossil fuel guzzlers haven't actually reduced anything, - just jam tomorrow.
And those that wish to believe it, will believe it.

Over a third of China's output is renewables, where Europe have transitioned from coal to gas, China is going coal to renewables. Europes goal for renewables is a fifth.

So China's emissions have reduced then?

2030, there are two years ahead of their targets - we're two years behind.

There are some lessons the UK government can take from China.

China invests in wind - the UK banned all offshore wind in 2015.
China has energy goals for new builds - the UK scrapped the warm home standard
China is now the largest producer and consumer of solar - the UK withdrew support for solar in 2016

Not to forget the UK sold off our green investment bank and removed communities abilities to protest fracking.

[Jon Gout]

If only the British were willing to work 72+ hour weeks for peanuts.

[Vespa]

If only the British were willing to work 72+ hour weeks for peanuts.

I'm sure JRM and chums will cut that into any US trade deal.

[Roy Twing]

Yes, of course, but not exclusively.
I haven't read enough of this thread (nor do I wish to) to know which side of the divide you fall, but I do believe that as long as the human race and associated farmed mammals continues to grow at over 1% each year (80+ million extra CO2 production units), the green crowd are urinating in the wind.
For some odd reason, the green bunch don't seem quite so vociferous about population growth as one would expect.

A lot of it can be offset by shifting the energy base, which China is doing at the moment.

The issue the west exported their carbon problem to the places that produce the stuff they consume. Those countries are shifting their manufacturing and energy base faster than the West now. China has 30% of the World's renewable energy plants, close to 200,000.

The mind boggling thing is we'll probably end up buying renewable technologies form India and China when we could have developed them locally and sold them globally if people hadn't fallen for the 'meh ... what about China'

China is also going to do the same with GMO, something Britain was far and away the global leader on less than 15 years ago.

I don't think we have/had a choice regarding China etc., developing renewables, - our masters have as you say, used China & co as our factory bases, - they were always going to be producing much of the materials required to generate 'green stuff'.
My bottom line on this is very much the 'meh, what about China' - you imply in your opening sentence that it is 'doing something' to reduce emissions, - but all I've really seen are stats which show no meaningful reductions.
I may be wrong, but it looks to my cynical mind that they are saying what the green lot over here want to to hear, but are actually doing very little in fact.
I really do not know conclusively the answer to this, but if global CO2 levels are actually reducing as a result of China & Co's supposed efforts, - I'd fully accept that the protesters have a point.

I guess I'll assume then, that China & all the other nice fossil fuel guzzlers haven't actually reduced anything, - just jam tomorrow.
And those that wish to believe it, will believe it.

Over a third of China's output is renewables, where Europe have transitioned from coal to gas, China is going coal to renewables. Europes goal for renewables is a fifth.

So China's emissions have reduced then?

2030, there are two years ahead of their targets - we're two years behind.

There are some lessons the UK government can take from China.

China invests in wind - the UK banned all offshore wind in 2015.
China has energy goals for new builds - the UK scrapped the warm home standard
China is now the largest producer and consumer of solar - the UK withdrew support for solar in 2016

Not to forget the UK sold off our green investment bank and removed communities abilities to protest fracking.

Jam the day after tomorrow then.

[Vespa]

Yes, of course, but not exclusively.
I haven't read enough of this thread (nor do I wish to) to know which side of the divide you fall, but I do believe that as long as the human race and associated farmed mammals continues to grow at over 1% each year (80+ million extra CO2 production units), the green crowd are urinating in the wind.
For some odd reason, the green bunch don't seem quite so vociferous about population growth as one would expect.

A lot of it can be offset by shifting the energy base, which China is doing at the moment.

The issue the west exported their carbon problem to the places that produce the stuff they consume. Those countries are shifting their manufacturing and energy base faster than the West now. China has 30% of the World's renewable energy plants, close to 200,000.

The mind boggling thing is we'll probably end up buying renewable technologies form India and China when we could have developed them locally and sold them globally if people hadn't fallen for the 'meh ... what about China'

China is also going to do the same with GMO, something Britain was far and away the global leader on less than 15 years ago.

I don't think we have/had a choice regarding China etc., developing renewables, - our masters have as you say, used China & co as our factory bases, - they were always going to be producing much of the materials required to generate 'green stuff'.
My bottom line on this is very much the 'meh, what about China' - you imply in your opening sentence that it is 'doing something' to reduce emissions, - but all I've really seen are stats which show no meaningful reductions.
I may be wrong, but it looks to my cynical mind that they are saying what the green lot over here want to to hear, but are actually doing very little in fact.
I really do not know conclusively the answer to this, but if global CO2 levels are actually reducing as a result of China & Co's supposed efforts, - I'd fully accept that the protesters have a point.

I guess I'll assume then, that China & all the other nice fossil fuel guzzlers haven't actually reduced anything, - just jam tomorrow.
And those that wish to believe it, will believe it.

Over a third of China's output is renewables, where Europe have transitioned from coal to gas, China is going coal to renewables. Europes goal for renewables is a fifth.

So China's emissions have reduced then?

2030, there are two years ahead of their targets - we're two years behind.

There are some lessons the UK government can take from China.

China invests in wind - the UK banned all offshore wind in 2015.
China has energy goals for new builds - the UK scrapped the warm home standard
China is now the largest producer and consumer of solar - the UK withdrew support for solar in 2016

Not to forget the UK sold off our green investment bank and removed communities abilities to protest fracking.

Jam the day after tomorrow then.

Pragmatism or we do nothing.

The UK still has more to do to achieve its own targets. We're in the position that China has more radical policies than the UK.

[Roy Twing]

Yes, of course, but not exclusively.
I haven't read enough of this thread (nor do I wish to) to know which side of the divide you fall, but I do believe that as long as the human race and associated farmed mammals continues to grow at over 1% each year (80+ million extra CO2 production units), the green crowd are urinating in the wind.
For some odd reason, the green bunch don't seem quite so vociferous about population growth as one would expect.

A lot of it can be offset by shifting the energy base, which China is doing at the moment.

The issue the west exported their carbon problem to the places that produce the stuff they consume. Those countries are shifting their manufacturing and energy base faster than the West now. China has 30% of the World's renewable energy plants, close to 200,000.

The mind boggling thing is we'll probably end up buying renewable technologies form India and China when we could have developed them locally and sold them globally if people hadn't fallen for the 'meh ... what about China'

China is also going to do the same with GMO, something Britain was far and away the global leader on less than 15 years ago.

I don't think we have/had a choice regarding China etc., developing renewables, - our masters have as you say, used China & co as our factory bases, - they were always going to be producing much of the materials required to generate 'green stuff'.
My bottom line on this is very much the 'meh, what about China' - you imply in your opening sentence that it is 'doing something' to reduce emissions, - but all I've really seen are stats which show no meaningful reductions.
I may be wrong, but it looks to my cynical mind that they are saying what the green lot over here want to to hear, but are actually doing very little in fact.
I really do not know conclusively the answer to this, but if global CO2 levels are actually reducing as a result of China & Co's supposed efforts, - I'd fully accept that the protesters have a point.

I guess I'll assume then, that China & all the other nice fossil fuel guzzlers haven't actually reduced anything, - just jam tomorrow.
And those that wish to believe it, will believe it.

Over a third of China's output is renewables, where Europe have transitioned from coal to gas, China is going coal to renewables. Europes goal for renewables is a fifth.

So China's emissions have reduced then?

2030, there are two years ahead of their targets - we're two years behind.

There are some lessons the UK government can take from China.

China invests in wind - the UK banned all offshore wind in 2015.
China has energy goals for new builds - the UK scrapped the warm home standard
China is now the largest producer and consumer of solar - the UK withdrew support for solar in 2016

Not to forget the UK sold off our green investment bank and removed communities abilities to protest fracking.

Jam the day after tomorrow then.

Pragmatism or we do nothing.

The UK still has more to do to achieve its own targets. We're in the position that China has more radical policies than the UK.

Do you know the stats (in millions of tonnes of CO2 emissions) between China & the UK?
It is worth looking and digesting before praising China compared with us.
China's growth in CO2 emissions in 2018 was something like 6 times the UK's entire output, - this is only China's increase over the previous year!
Our emissions are virtually nothing against the scale of China.

[Royal24s]

Yes, of course, but not exclusively.
I haven't read enough of this thread (nor do I wish to) to know which side of the divide you fall, but I do believe that as long as the human race and associated farmed mammals continues to grow at over 1% each year (80+ million extra CO2 production units), the green crowd are urinating in the wind.
For some odd reason, the green bunch don't seem quite so vociferous about population growth as one would expect.

A lot of it can be offset by shifting the energy base, which China is doing at the moment.

The issue the west exported their carbon problem to the places that produce the stuff they consume. Those countries are shifting their manufacturing and energy base faster than the West now. China has 30% of the World's renewable energy plants, close to 200,000.

The mind boggling thing is we'll probably end up buying renewable technologies form India and China when we could have developed them locally and sold them globally if people hadn't fallen for the 'meh ... what about China'

China is also going to do the same with GMO, something Britain was far and away the global leader on less than 15 years ago.

I don't think we have/had a choice regarding China etc., developing renewables, - our masters have as you say, used China & co as our factory bases, - they were always going to be producing much of the materials required to generate 'green stuff'.
My bottom line on this is very much the 'meh, what about China' - you imply in your opening sentence that it is 'doing something' to reduce emissions, - but all I've really seen are stats which show no meaningful reductions.
I may be wrong, but it looks to my cynical mind that they are saying what the green lot over here want to to hear, but are actually doing very little in fact.
I really do not know conclusively the answer to this, but if global CO2 levels are actually reducing as a result of China & Co's supposed efforts, - I'd fully accept that the protesters have a point.

I guess I'll assume then, that China & all the other nice fossil fuel guzzlers haven't actually reduced anything, - just jam tomorrow.
And those that wish to believe it, will believe it.

Over a third of China's output is renewables, where Europe have transitioned from coal to gas, China is going coal to renewables. Europes goal for renewables is a fifth.

So China's emissions have reduced then?

2030, there are two years ahead of their targets - we're two years behind.

There are some lessons the UK government can take from China.

China invests in wind - the UK banned all offshore wind in 2015.
China has energy goals for new builds - the UK scrapped the warm home standard
China is now the largest producer and consumer of solar - the UK withdrew support for solar in 2016

Not to forget the UK sold off our green investment bank and removed communities abilities to protest fracking.

Jam the day after tomorrow then.

Pragmatism or we do nothing.

The UK still has more to do to achieve its own targets. We're in the position that China has more radical policies than the UK.

The answer is obvious. Move to China. You can get a job for $4 a week in the IPhone factory or one of Al Gore's coal fired power stations

[Royal24s]

Yes, of course, but not exclusively.
I haven't read enough of this thread (nor do I wish to) to know which side of the divide you fall, but I do believe that as long as the human race and associated farmed mammals continues to grow at over 1% each year (80+ million extra CO2 production units), the green crowd are urinating in the wind.
For some odd reason, the green bunch don't seem quite so vociferous about population growth as one would expect.

A lot of it can be offset by shifting the energy base, which China is doing at the moment.

The issue the west exported their carbon problem to the places that produce the stuff they consume. Those countries are shifting their manufacturing and energy base faster than the West now. China has 30% of the World's renewable energy plants, close to 200,000.

The mind boggling thing is we'll probably end up buying renewable technologies form India and China when we could have developed them locally and sold them globally if people hadn't fallen for the 'meh ... what about China'

China is also going to do the same with GMO, something Britain was far and away the global leader on less than 15 years ago.

I don't think we have/had a choice regarding China etc., developing renewables, - our masters have as you say, used China & co as our factory bases, - they were always going to be producing much of the materials required to generate 'green stuff'.
My bottom line on this is very much the 'meh, what about China' - you imply in your opening sentence that it is 'doing something' to reduce emissions, - but all I've really seen are stats which show no meaningful reductions.
I may be wrong, but it looks to my cynical mind that they are saying what the green lot over here want to to hear, but are actually doing very little in fact.
I really do not know conclusively the answer to this, but if global CO2 levels are actually reducing as a result of China & Co's supposed efforts, - I'd fully accept that the protesters have a point.

I guess I'll assume then, that China & all the other nice fossil fuel guzzlers haven't actually reduced anything, - just jam tomorrow.
And those that wish to believe it, will believe it.

Over a third of China's output is renewables, where Europe have transitioned from coal to gas, China is going coal to renewables. Europes goal for renewables is a fifth.

So China's emissions have reduced then?

2030, there are two years ahead of their targets - we're two years behind.

There are some lessons the UK government can take from China.

China invests in wind - the UK banned all offshore wind in 2015.
China has energy goals for new builds - the UK scrapped the warm home standard
China is now the largest producer and consumer of solar - the UK withdrew support for solar in 2016

Not to forget the UK sold off our green investment bank and removed communities abilities to protest fracking.

Jam the day after tomorrow then.

Pragmatism or we do nothing.

The UK still has more to do to achieve its own targets. We're in the position that China has more radical policies than the UK.

Do you know the stats (in millions of tonnes of CO2 emissions) between China & the UK?
It is worth looking and digesting before praising China compared with us.
China's growth in CO2 emissions in 2018 was something like 6 times the UK's entire output, - this is only China's increase over the previous year!
Our emissions are virtually nothing against the scale of China.

How can you even entertain that stuff Roy ?
If anyone thinks China gives a toss about the climate change industry other than benefiting from it they're very out of touch with reality.

[Jon Gout]

Even if they don't give a toss about climate, they surely recognise that fossil fuels aren't unlimited.

[Roy Twing]

A lot of it can be offset by shifting the energy base, which China is doing at the moment.

The issue the west exported their carbon problem to the places that produce the stuff they consume. Those countries are shifting their manufacturing and energy base faster than the West now. China has 30% of the World's renewable energy plants, close to 200,000.

The mind boggling thing is we'll probably end up buying renewable technologies form India and China when we could have developed them locally and sold them globally if people hadn't fallen for the 'meh ... what about China'

China is also going to do the same with GMO, something Britain was far and away the global leader on less than 15 years ago.

I don't think we have/had a choice regarding China etc., developing renewables, - our masters have as you say, used China & co as our factory bases, - they were always going to be producing much of the materials required to generate 'green stuff'.
My bottom line on this is very much the 'meh, what about China' - you imply in your opening sentence that it is 'doing something' to reduce emissions, - but all I've really seen are stats which show no meaningful reductions.
I may be wrong, but it looks to my cynical mind that they are saying what the green lot over here want to to hear, but are actually doing very little in fact.
I really do not know conclusively the answer to this, but if global CO2 levels are actually reducing as a result of China & Co's supposed efforts, - I'd fully accept that the protesters have a point.

I guess I'll assume then, that China & all the other nice fossil fuel guzzlers haven't actually reduced anything, - just jam tomorrow.
And those that wish to believe it, will believe it.

Over a third of China's output is renewables, where Europe have transitioned from coal to gas, China is going coal to renewables. Europes goal for renewables is a fifth.

So China's emissions have reduced then?

2030, there are two years ahead of their targets - we're two years behind.

There are some lessons the UK government can take from China.

China invests in wind - the UK banned all offshore wind in 2015.
China has energy goals for new builds - the UK scrapped the warm home standard
China is now the largest producer and consumer of solar - the UK withdrew support for solar in 2016

Not to forget the UK sold off our green investment bank and removed communities abilities to protest fracking.

Jam the day after tomorrow then.

Pragmatism or we do nothing.

The UK still has more to do to achieve its own targets. We're in the position that China has more radical policies than the UK.

Do you know the stats (in millions of tonnes of CO2 emissions) between China & the UK?
It is worth looking and digesting before praising China compared with us.
China's growth in CO2 emissions in 2018 was something like 6 times the UK's entire output, - this is only China's increase over the previous year!
Our emissions are virtually nothing against the scale of China.

How can you even entertain that stuff Roy ?
If anyone thinks China gives a toss about the climate change industry other than benefiting from it they're very out of touch with reality.

Not sure what you're saying here Royal - I'm entirely on the side of opinion that anyone who praises China's green credentials over any western country must have more than a few screws loose.

[Roy Twing]

Even if they don't give a toss about climate, they surely recognise that fossil fuels aren't unlimited.

And they will make any changes (if any) when it suits their economy - no other factor will be involved.
And in the meantime they will continue to make promises that will appease our SJWs.

[Darkyboy]

Even if they don't give a toss about climate, they surely recognise that fossil fuels aren't unlimited.

And they will make any changes (if any) when it suits their economy - no other factor will be involved.
And in the meantime they will continue to make promises that will appease our SJWs.

Ain't that the truth. The eco-activists can pat themselves on the back for clogging up London, but they completely ignore the bigger picture. It shows that the protests were about easing their liberal guilt more than changing the world.

[Roy Twing]

Even if they don't give a toss about climate, they surely recognise that fossil fuels aren't unlimited.

And they will make any changes (if any) when it suits their economy - no other factor will be involved.
And in the meantime they will continue to make promises that will appease our SJWs.

Ain't that the truth. The eco-activists can pat themselves on the back for clogging up London, but they completely ignore the bigger picture. It shows that the protests were about easing their liberal guilt more than changing the world.

Here are the figures as I understand them:
If I've read the figures correctly (and the numbers of noughts are easily mis-read) - it will (or should) make your eyes water and make you realise the utterly ridiculous criticism of the UK in this matter, especially when talking about China in the same breath:

UK CO2 emissions 2018 - 361,000,000 tonnes
China CO2 emissions 2018 - 80,000,000,000 tones.

Or to put it another way, - the UK's emissions amount to barely a day and a half of China's.

[Vespa]

Even if they don't give a toss about climate, they surely recognise that fossil fuels aren't unlimited.

And they will make any changes (if any) when it suits their economy - no other factor will be involved.
And in the meantime they will continue to make promises that will appease our SJWs.

Ain't that the truth. The eco-activists can pat themselves on the back for clogging up London, but they completely ignore the bigger picture. It shows that the protests were about easing their liberal guilt more than changing the world.

Here are the figures as I understand them:
If I've read the figures correctly (and the numbers of noughts are easily mis-read) - it will (or should) make your eyes water and make you realise the utterly ridiculous criticism of the UK in this matter, especially when taking about China in the same breath:

UK CO2 emissions 2018 - 361,000,000 tonnes
China CO2 emissions 2018 - 80,000,000,000 tones.

Or to put it another way, - the UK's emissions amount to barely a day and a half of China's.

Should we ban any protest movement protesting something in the UK that is worst anywhere else in the World?