Hillman avenger wrote:colinthewarriormonkey wrote:Hillman avenger wrote:colinthewarriormonkey wrote:Ralph wrote:Healthcare should be based on need not your ability to pay.
We should aspire to a system where the billionaire has the same access to healthcare as a penniless tramp.
If the ruling class were told they couldn’t use money to bypass problems in the NHS the funding would increase overnight.
That's mental, people going private pay into the NHS regardless of whether they have private medical insurance or not and by going private they are taking a burden off the NHS, so, therefore, poor people get treated quicker by the NHS because these "rich" people aren't taking up a place on the waiting list.
The vast majority of people with private healthcare aren't part of the ruling class.
Unless you are suggesting that as soon as you become an MP, you are no longer allowed to access private healthcare, so that you get an idea of what it is like to be part of the NHS system, in which case you have a point which I'd also extend to schooling.
I worked in the GMC Fitness to Practice division for about 2 years.
I can tell you that only severe and prolonged malpractice reaches FTP and many of those fall by the wayside.
A doctor, particularly a GP, can be neglectful, incompetent or out-of-date for years without detection.
I can tell you more if you like.
BTW there is far more chance of a poor doctor being detected in a hospital than elsewhere.
This thread was originally about a provider who knew a doctor was failing, and had failed to properly supervise him and to check he was insured. But worst of all then continued to recruit patients for him.
But as it's been widened let's deal with the idea that private medicine takes the load off the NHS
No it doesn't.
It does not provide A and E, acute care, chronic condition management , paediatrics, gerontology, and a long list of other disciplines it can't make money out of. That is left to the NHS which will never refuse but may not have the resource to help soon enough.
Why does it not have the resource?
Under-funding
Short-termism which doesn't work when you are building hospitals and training nurses and doctors.
Encouraging skilled EU nationals to leave the system.
And being poached by the private sector.
There is no sensible debate about medicine where there are scarce resources without having a moral dimension. To me, as a society, we should have an understanding that access to medicine, while it is limited, is based on need and urgency and not ability to pay.
Hillman you claim to have worked in every job that is relevant to every thread on this board.
You must be about 170 years old to have fitted them all in.
As for a couple of your other points, it DOES take a load off the NHS they carry out procedures that would normally be carried out by the NHS, therefore it IS taking some load off - to suggest it doesn't is absurd. It also provides the NHS with extra cash in many instances.
As for EU nationals leaving, it's got fuck all to do with Private health companies and everything to do with Brexit.
1. I ran my private consulting business and over about 2 years ran a project within Fitness to Practice, in both London and Manchester. It was not full-time and probably amounted to about 8 days a month. I had to work with the director , senior managers and team leaders. OK? While I was there they got the results from the Dame Janet Smith report on Shipman.
2. Yes procedures get carried out in private hospitals although very rarely the complex ones, which would otherwise be done in the NHS. But to do it they use doctors and nurses taken from the NHS who could otherwise be doing their work in the NHS and reducing their backlog. And as taxpayers we fund their training. Not the private hospitals.
3. I didn't say private medicine was the CAUSE of EU nationals leaving. I said it was one of the reasons the NHS has resource problems and it is LUNACY to be making it worse through Brexit.
As for the extra cash....governments successively make big gestures after underfunding the NHS by then throwing cash at it. To make any real difference, given the lead-times to train people and build hospitals, would take 5-10 years; ie several election cycles away. Governments don't want that.
So what actually happens is that the money gets spent outsourcing procedures to the private sector and the fundamental problem never gets fixed. Plus that money cycles from government into big business. Have a look at how much private healthcare companies give the Tories; they want this to continue. We are the mugs who let it.
Jesus Christ. People actually consulted you and asked for your opinion on matters.
