Ukraine - Part 2

[Carlos J]

Continuation from here: https://talkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t ... start=1485

As has been said before, this is an emotive topic and robust debate is expected and welcomed.

But as we have said, there is also a line to be drawn and some have crossed it and bans have been issued and probably more could have.

Simply again, attack the post not the poster, play the ball not the man. This doesn't just refer to blatant abuse, subtle and less subtle goading is also included.

If you don't agree with something someone says, there are a few options: Critique and counter the post, ignore the post or put the poster on ignore. The first is preferable as we are all adults but we all get a bit hot-headed, so just think before pressing 'Submit' as we really don't want to ban people. And do report a post you feel breaks the rules. Apologies if some see this as slightly patronsing, was trying not to be. Thanks

As far as I am aware NATO hasn't actually started a conflict anywhere, it comes in when a conflict has started, as for Russia being concerned for it's borders, well, I hardly think the countries which were annexed to Russia and are now free would want to attack Russia in an effort to get back under Russia's yoke.

NATO attempting to encircle Russia gives further reason for the latter to feel threatened. Since the 1991 dissolution of the USSR, Russia hadn't had any problem with Ukraine. All changed in 2014 with the coup in Ukraine. The prospect of Russian naval bases being closed in Crimea, only for NATO bases to replace it was the final straw for Russia.

I know English isn't my first language but I don't think you know what encircle means. Here's a picture to help you out.

The attempts to add Ukraine and Georgia (two nations far away from the Atlantic Ocean) to NATO were designed to assist with the programme of encirclement. To compliment the USA's military presence in Japan, S Korea and previously Kyrgysztan, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and Pakistan.

It was an attempt at encirclement.

Now contrast that to the presence of Russian bases in Latin America and the Caribb... ah!

Pictures are hard to understand ... but something something encirclement.

More like something something poor little NATO.

Your Putin loyalty card must have a lot of stamps on it.

NATOs Ukraine loyalty card is on the floor, trampled on and torn. With most of the ink faded out.

[Vespa]

The Russian Nazi regime has offered to herd the residents of towns they are shelling to prevent Ukrainians from escaping into camps situated in Russia. Clearly genocide.

[Zambo]

I would still like to hear why what Russia is doing In Ukraine is seen as peacekeeping. If we get this, it may well cut out the accusations of trolling.

[The Tick]

I would still like to hear why what Russia is doing In Ukraine is seen as peacekeeping. If we get this, it may well cut out the accusations of trolling.

Russia's intentions are to keep Ukraine neutral between it and NATO. There's no will for invasion or permanent occupation.

Bear in mind that thousands of people were killed by Ukrainian military in the Luhansk and Donetsk republics in the preceding 8 years.

[Vespa]

I would still like to hear why what Russia is doing In Ukraine is seen as peacekeeping. If we get this, it may well cut out the accusations of trolling.

Russia's intentions are to keep Ukraine neutral between it and NATO. There's no will for invasion or permanent occupation.

They've invaded and are occupying the country.

[Zambo]

I can't get my head round the murder of innocent adults and children as peacekeeping, and it is murder as they are shelling residential areas intentionally, and agreeing a ceasefire and then shelling as soon as people leave.

[Vespa]

I can't get my head round the murder of innocent adults and children as peacekeeping, and it is murder as they are shelling residential areas intentionally, and agreeing a ceasefire and then shelling as soon as people leave.

Because he wants to herd them in Russian camps.

Here is a great thread by the former Russian Foreign Minister clearly stating that Russia wants to annex Ukraine and Putin doesn't believe it's a real country.

[The Tick]

I can't get my head round the murder of innocent adults and children as peacekeeping, and it is murder as they are shelling residential areas intentionally, and agreeing a ceasefire and then shelling as soon as people leave.

Ukraine's military has murdered innocent adults and children in Luhansk and Donetsk. I don't recall any global outrage about that. Russia's actions are partly to prevent that activity happening again.

[theleader82]

[The Tick]

Russia hasn't annexed Georgia.

[Sunbeam Alpine]

I can't get my head round the murder of innocent adults and children as peacekeeping, and it is murder as they are shelling residential areas intentionally, and agreeing a ceasefire and then shelling as soon as people leave.

Re the firing on people fleeing.

A guy from the body facilitating talks for ceasefire said this morning that the problem is the agreements have been very lacking in detail. as to routes, identification of those on the move, and so on. So when they have come into force, troops have been unclear about whether or not to leave them alone.

[Vespa]

Matthew is one of those people incapable of doing two things at once. Higher IQ people don't have this problem.

[Steve Hunt]

Because he wants to herd them in Russian camps.

Here is a great thread by the former Russian Foreign Minister clearly stating that Russia wants to annex Ukraine and Putin doesn't believe it's a real country.

I know David Starkey has been cancelled by and large, but he makes exactly the same point here:

[Zambo]

I can't get my head round the murder of innocent adults and children as peacekeeping, and it is murder as they are shelling residential areas intentionally, and agreeing a ceasefire and then shelling as soon as people leave.

Ukraine's military has murdered innocent adults and children in Luhansk and Donetsk. I don't recall any global outrage about that. Russia's actions are partly to prevent that activity happening again.

It's just another but deflection. You are still condoning the murder of civilians because Russia think they are being surrounded by an aggressive NATO without foundation. There is no way anyone can say murder is any sort of peacekeeping.

[Vespa]

Because he wants to herd them in Russian camps.

Here is a great thread by the former Russian Foreign Minister clearly stating that Russia wants to annex Ukraine and Putin doesn't believe it's a real country.

I know David Starkey has been cancelled by and large, but he makes exactly the same point here:

There is a clear consensus that Putin wants to wipe Ukraine off the map and annexe into a greater Russia, at the same time he's now talking about herding Ukrainians into 'refugee camps' - it's a national socialist roadmap and anyone supporting Putin is simply waiting for their bag of burnt gold teeth to arrive.